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  1. #21
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwmullet
    -KwM-

    ** What warrants being called a 'professional'? Getting money for images? Making a living from photography? The approach to the art and craft?
    Good question !! I guess what I really meant was "commercial" photographers (ie:make a living dealing with the public). I have absolutely no doubt that many "hobby" photographers (not counting me in there ) do the job with as much professionalism as those who make their living at it.

    cheers

  2. #22
    lee
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    ** What warrants being called a 'professional'? Getting money for images? Making a living from photography? The approach to the art and craft?**

    the IRS says that if you get most of your income (like 3/5s or so) from photography you are a professional.

    lee\c

  3. #23

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    I crop the tiny black borders off my 8x10 contact prints. I think it looks tacky and is just part of the process in making the image, and not part of the "final image". Like Michael Smith said, you are not viewing those black borders on the ground glass are you?

    You can still trim your print and not go into the image whatsoever, you just trim RIGHT along the edge of the black borders. This way, you are not loosing any image.

  4. #24
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    Crop until your heart is content. Don't we just do this with the camera anyway, when we compose a picture out there in the "real world." tim

  5. #25

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    One interesting thing I've noticed in LF is that nearly everyone who uses Polaroid Type 55 prints the whole frame. Personally, I like the look of the full 4x5 frame (in B/W at least), but I don't think I'd ever try selling any prints that way; I'd feel far too pretentious.

    Still, it seems the edges may not just be for pretentious artsy types. I was surprised to see Robert Clark's images in the November 2004 issue of National Geographic printed with the borders.

    Melchi
    Melchi M. Michel

  6. #26
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    The borders are usually just distracting and I care not a fig whether the photographer cropped or not, so, in general, I don't like to see film borders.

    On Polaroid T-55 it is certainly popular to show the ragged border and a quick check in the Gallery here suggests it's about 50/50 border/no border for APUG posters (including one by me...). I doubt the general public would know T-55 from a hole in the head, so it must be aimed at fellow photogs and serious collectors: a sort of masonic handshake, a nudge and a wink, "we know, don't we?"...

    Cheers, Bob.

  7. #27
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    Some well thought out comments here, here is mine though it wont count since I am not an artist. I don't care for the proof factor that since an image shows it's borders it is more "pure" than one that is cropped. A print in my opinion looks very amateurish with the border left intact in the print.
    The photographers of the past who were my teachers went to great lengths to mask the borders on their 8x contact prints. Any print printed that still
    had the hold down borders and code notches etc were considered to be a "proof" by most buyers and D R technicians. In the mid fifties or so the "purity" of an image began to be challenged by a small group of "artists" that if it did not show the borders you had done something unsanitary or unclean by cropping the negatives gender. (border to me) There fore any thing with out the negatives edges was automacally a second or third class image. The only good or great image had to show it in it's entirety. That small group I mentioned is now a much larger group including many of the large Format camera operators.

    I will not leave the border on my prints, but I really don't care much what others do. I still look at a print with edges showing as a "proof" or unfinished.

  8. #28
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your comments. Having read these comments and then having looked at my prints both with and without the film holder outline showing, I've decided that I like the way a print looks when it focusses on the image without the distraction of the border. As Charles does, I've slowly come to view prints with the holder border showing as test or proof prints.

    cheers and thank you

  9. #29
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    I've seen it done by some photographers printing B&W, but never on a color image. I think it is a personal preference thing.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

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