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  1. #11
    erikg's Avatar
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    How about a gelatine-chloride printing out paper? Or is that too far from the look you are after? P.O.P. has a lot of the qualities of Azo, long tonal scale, sharpness etc. I have used it in the past, and I'm thinking about doing so again as my current choice, Forte in Ansco 130 will soon cease being an option.

  2. #12
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikg View Post
    How about a gelatine-chloride printing out paper? Or is that too far from the look you are after? P.O.P. has a lot of the qualities of Azo, long tonal scale, sharpness etc.]
    Erik, I've never had any experience with a POP paper. Wouldn't even know where to find one. Is it available? What would it take to make it work?
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
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  3. #13
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughowk View Post
    I'm curious about marketing - those who have in past marketed their AZO contact prints as distinctly different & in the tradition of Weston, do you now tell the consumer/collector that there are enlarging papers available that are just as good? Or is there a real difference that would make holding out for Lodima (or coating your own) a better choice?
    That's a good question Doug. I've given some thought to it but haven't committed anything to paper until now. Obviously, one can't market prints as being Azo prints when they are not. My idea is just to drop reference to Azo all together, with just a brief explanation that Azo is gone and life is continuing without it. Think I need to change my auction site name too. :rolleyes:
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  4. #14
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hall View Post
    I wonder if Michael would sacrifice the paper deal if it was a good coating but couldn't be done on a single weight?
    That may be necessary. From what I have learned, its harder to produce single weight than it is double weight. That sounds counter-intuitive, but its not. The double weight paper stands up to the processing much better than single weight. The coating machines can go faster too. From what I found out about the process, its just not viable for a US, UK, or Japanese company to make single weight unless they are willing to do it at a loss. Fat chance. I'm really surprised that Slavich is doing it, but, the Russian economy is hungry for business. If they can make it, and make a profit, power to them.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
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  5. #15

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    Alex,

    Thanks for putting your thoughts and your impressions based in your experience out for us to draw from. I agree that I have seen some really fine prints from Azo...but then I have also seen some very good prints on other papers or printed with other processes.

    I think that the marketing hype surrounding Azo was part of the cult appeal of the paper. It was certainly good...but as you said it is time to move on.

    The paper does not the photograph make.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  6. #16

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    As someone that has been selling "AZO prints" for several years now, I can tell you that when I was first selling prints on Ebay for super low prices, a lot of people were buying just to see what an AZO print looks like and its image characteristics. Now, printing on AZO is just part of the process of my image making and I'm selling to more serious photography collectors. Luckily, I have enough AZO to last until Lodima paper becomes available.

    When Lodima paper becomes available, I think it will sound quite funny calling them "Lodima prints", so the term "Silver Chloride print" is more appropriate. Actually, that is what "AZO prints" should be called now. When Lodima paper becomes available, I'm planning on purchasing a good quantity to last me for many years to come, just in case it does not stay in production for along time, but I'm not expecting that. As long as Lodima paper is in production, I will continue to purchase it has necessary to keep my supply on hand to a decent size.

    If Lodima paper were to not become available, I would simply find another paper available. Preferable single weight and graded.

    In today’s world, it's the final image that is most important, and not really all about the process. Of course the process plays an important roll in creating the final image, but it's the artists vision that people are more interested in seeing rather than a brand of paper.

    Best,

    Ryan McIntosh
    www.RyanMcIntosh.net
    Last edited by User Removed; 02-26-2007 at 09:48 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Great post Alex, thank you. I printed on Azo and still would if I had a stock of it or if it were still available, it is not. I wish Michael and Paula all the success in the world creating a replacement though I'm not going to stop printing and wait for Lodima paper to come to fruition.

    I've found a paper and developer combo that I like and plan on sticking with it unless I find something I like better. The day I base the quality of my work primarily on my media is the day I've failed as a creative photographer. Shawn

  8. #18
    erikg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Hawley View Post
    Erik, I've never had any experience with a POP paper. Wouldn't even know where to find one. Is it available? What would it take to make it work?
    Yes, it is available in the US here: http://www.albumenworks.com/

    Not albumen, that is just their name. Like Azo this is also a silver chloride paper, just much slower.

    I think it is also available at Retro-Photographic as well.

    It needs a UV light source (like old mr.sun) and one usually tones with gold, fixes in plain hypo, although there are other routines. UV lamps are the most consistant, but nothing beats taking a snooze in the sun while your prints are exposing. You use a splitback contact frame so you can check on the progress.

  9. #19

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    POP can make pretty amazing prints but they look reddish and are unstable without toning and you definetly need a much longer scale negative for it to really work well. I heard you can use platinum toner and get a pretty close to neutral tone.

    I also want to make a comment about AZO. Even if other papers come pretty close in look/quality, you can't beat it for ease of printing on it. It is just so easy it can make a beginner look like he's got it.

  10. #20

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    Alex, appreciate the post. Please keep us informed on the progress with the Slavich paper. I have found the Kentmere bromide to work well and was closer to the azo print than kentmere (which was warmer in look, not necessarily worse - actually I like some prints warmer...). I will be testing emaks / nuance some more as well (too early to judge...).

    It would be helpful if you would post your developer findings along with the paper (i.e. what you felt to be the best match).

    I hope M & P come through soon. I do like the ease of getting really nice prints with the chloride paper.

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