Switch to English Language Passer en langue franÁaise Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,540   Posts: 1,544,295   Online: 889
      
Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 105
  1. #81

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Windsor, UK
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    182
    With apologies to come back to the original subject (;D) I'd be interested in finding an available, good paper to contact print 8x10 on silver paper....

  2. #82
    Ole
    Ole is offline
    Ole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    9,281
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    31
    One paper which hasn't been mentioned yet is the Bergger Contact paper.

    It's not a silver chloride paper though - it's probably got a bit of iodide in it too. But it's slow, and extremely flexible in developing: You can make it do just about anything by changin the processing. It's also possible to enlarge on it, but the exposure times easily get very long. It's three to four stops slower than "ordinary" enlarging papers.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  3. #83

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fort Smith, NT, Canada
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    436

    Bergger Art Contact 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    One paper which hasn't been mentioned yet is the Bergger Contact paper.

    It's not a silver chloride paper though - it's probably got a bit of iodide in it too. But it's slow, and extremely flexible in developing: You can make it do just about anything by changin the processing. It's also possible to enlarge on it, but the exposure times easily get very long. It's three to four stops slower than "ordinary" enlarging papers.
    Hello Ole,

    I have noticed that you have mentioned this a couple of times on other threads, so I thought I would give it a try. I have some on the way - not a common item in North America. In addition to the information on Bergger's site, could you give a bit of info (or links) about processing it - or your personal recommendations.

    I use the Forte or re-branded equivalents for most Bergger product's (price), but have never found one for Art Contact 2.

    Cheers,
    Clarence

  4. #84
    Ole
    Ole is offline
    Ole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    9,281
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    31
    I've used it most with Ansco 130, since that's what I've used the most. Different developers and different developing will give different results; it's very responsive to changes!

    It also tones very well. I put a scrap print in a blue toner that had "stopped working". It hadn't - the print turned the most brilliantly intense blue I've ever seen on a BW paper within a second! Since then I've been very careful with it around toners...

    Oh yes - you can lith print on it too, if you can live with the extremely long exposure times. If your "normal" lith exposure is one minute, expect about ten to fifteen with the Art Contact.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  5. #85

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fort Smith, NT, Canada
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    436

    Art Contact shelf life

    Hi Ole,

    Just one more thing. Do you know if it has a long shelf life - any incorporated developers? I ordered quite a bit.

    Cheers,
    Clarence

  6. #86
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,022
    Images
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    One paper which hasn't been mentioned yet is the Bergger Contact paper.

    It's not a silver chloride paper though - it's probably got a bit of iodide in it too. But it's slow, and extremely flexible in developing: You can make it do just about anything by changin the processing. It's also possible to enlarge on it, but the exposure times easily get very long. It's three to four stops slower than "ordinary" enlarging papers.
    Ole;

    All silver chloride papers had a tiny amount of iodide in them.

    PE

  7. #87

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Hawley View Post
    Iím writing this as I look at a half-dozen prints. These prints have made over several months in my attempt to settle in on a paper/developer combination that is a good alternative to Azo developed in Amidol. This last eighteen months has been a difficult period for those of us who contact print. With the withdrawal of Kodak from the B&W paper market, we lost Azo which was the only silver chloride contact printing paper on the market (US market). We are left with silver gelatin projection enlargement papers; but in the last year, weíve also lost Agfa and now Forte, both makers of highly revered papers. Some are lamenting these losses to infinitum. Some are worrying about their artistic vision having to be changed. I say its time to move on.

    Azo was a beautiful paper. Developed in amidol, it became regarded as the gold standard in terms of beauty. Iím thankful to have learned contact printing on it and enjoyed it while it was there. But itís gone and wonít return (well, maybe not quite; more on this later). If someone does bring a silver chloride contact printing paper to market, it wonít be an exact duplicate of Azo. Thatís impossible for several technical reasons. Even Kodak had some large deviations in its characteristics over the years. My belief is there are paper and developer combinations available that will make prints that I like just as well as my Azo/Amidol prints. And itís necessary that these alternatives be ones that will stay available for the future.

    Perhaps the largest detriment to the Azo/Amidol combination was its cost. Azo was running about $1 USD per sheet while still in production. In recent auctions, itís been going for $3 USD per sheet. Normal price for Amidol is $50 USD per 100 grams. If you were lucky to get in on the Chinese Amidol deal last year, it went for about $50 per US pound.

    From my Azo experience, Iíve become a great believer in using one particular type of paper and learning how to use it well. With all the losses of suppliers weíve seen recently, I also want a paper thatís secure in the market; one thatís going to be available for many years. I donít want to have to change papers again for a long while.

    My thoughts on developers are along the same lines. I want one thatís close to Amidol; one that provides excellent contrast control, with water bath capability, without having to tailor the developer to each individual print. It would also be nice to have a developer that lasts a long time in both stock and mixed form. There was never any problem with exhaustion using Amidol, it had to be mixed right at the start of the developing session and its life was only about twenty-four hours. Twelve to twenty-four keeper prints is about the best I can do in twenty-four hours. Then that high-priced amidol goes down the drain. Hard for this olí farmboy to take. Iíve gotten to where I hoard my amidol for the really ďgood stuffĒ. Donít want to do that anymore.

    Looking at the prints I have made, Iím quite convinced they look just as good as the one made from the same negative and printed on Azo/Amidol. They are not exactly the same; they canít be. But I like them just as well. Thatís the important thing. Here are my alternatives.

    Developers:
    First, thereís Pyro Plus Paper Developer, or PPPD, which was developed by APUG member Donald Miller. The active ingredients are phenidone, catechol, and pyrogallol. Itís a very active developer, active enough to use the water bath for contrast control. In its standard formulation, the pyrogallol gives a good Warmtone. It can be made colder or warmer by varying the ratio of pyrogallol and catechol. I like this developer a lot. Everyone I know who has used it likes it. Itís not available on the market so it must be mixed from the raw chemicals. Hereís a link to the latest formulation.

    The downside of PPPD is that it is short-lived like Amidol. Pyrogallol oxidizes fairly rapidly. Extended life can be gained by decreasing the pyrogallol and increasing the catechol; using catechol only, Iíve had it last about a week after mixing.

    Ansco 130: This is an old standby developer, one that Iíve been wanting to try for a long time. It has not been made for a long time so it must be mixed from the dry chemicals. Pre-measured kits are available from the Formulary as PF 130. Tried for the first time yesterday; it rocks! Not quite as active as Amidol, but I could get the water bath to work with it in both 1:1 and 1:2 dilutions. It stayed active in the water bath for 30-45 seconds, which is the same as PPPD and another old favorite, Agfa Neutol (also no longer with us). The tone is neutral. The shelf life in both stock and mixed form is said to be several months, probably as good as it gets for a paper developer. Iím a newly-converted PF 130 fan and itís now my standard developer.

    Tektol: Two new developers from Silver Grain are Tektol Standard and Tektol Neutral. The standard form is a warm tone; the neutral is a neutral tone. They are very similar to PF 130. Different chemistry, but the results are nearly the same. Advantage is that they come in liquid concentrate form so there is no dry chemical mixing necessary. Good stuff that merits a try.

    Papers
    I still believe that graded papers have a slight edge over variable contrast (VC) papers. That assertion is probably infinitely debatable, but lets donít go there right now. Plus, after Azo, I still like varying contrast between grades using the water bath and developer dilution. It just seems to achieve a finer degree of control than swapping filters in the enlarger.

    Nuance: Very good paper, but I just couldnít get it to look like I wanted it to. Just didnít quite have the look I want. Other people are very happy with it. Itís made in Croatia and reportedly unaffected by the Forte closure. Itís becoming more widely available.

    Kentmere Bromide: Excellent all around I think. Relatively neutral toned, I like the look of it. Available in grades 2, 3, and 4.

    Kentmere Kentona: Excellent, with a slightly warm tone. One grade only which seems to be Grade 3.

    Slavich Unibrom: New on the market from Freestyle, made in Russia; grades 2, 3,and 4. For Azo lovers, all grades and sizes are available in single weight, and double weight too.

    Kentona and Slavich seem very close in characteristics. Paper speed is about the same with Slavich being just slightly slower. They are both very responsive to selenium toning. Slavich tones fairly rapidly. I found that both papers became quite red-toned while wet and in the toner, but after drying, the tone reverts back considerably.

    I only tested the Slavich in grade 3, and with one negative. But donít discount it for one minute. I think it may have real possibilities.

    A Silver Chloride Paper: Silver chloride contact printing paper is not quite extinct yet. If you want to coat your own paper, it can still be done. Ron Mowrey, known here on APUG as Photo Engineer, has developed a home-brew silver chloride emulsion that can be made in the home and hand coated on just about any base you want to coat it on. It works and works well. Hereís a thread I previously wrote about it.

    In the bottom line, I'm liking the prints I made with the materials described above, as much as the Azo/Amidol print of the same negative, and comparing them all side-by-side. As the old saying goes, your mileage may vary. Azo is gone just like high octane ethyl gasoline. It was fun while it lasted but now its time to move ahead. Find a combination you like. Maybe its one of the above, maybe not. But the important thing I believe, is to find a combination that works for you and keep photographing.


    Obsess over subject matter and light instead of a paper & developer combination.
    If one had a bounty of beautiful, well seen work , the negatives would print well on most over- the -counter papers in todays market.

    This is on the verge of camera club dialogue.

    There's an incredible world to be seen out there folks ! Get over the Azo ...grab your camera , some film and .........

    Do you think photographers doing important work today worry about stuff like this ? I don't think so.
    I saw some of Nick Nixon's new work printed on Agfa and it looks great ! Just as good as his Azo prints. Why ? Not because of the Agfa- its because the images are so moving.
    I've given Emmet Gowin some of my Azo 4 in the past......he's moved on, and he never printed on just Azo to begin with.

    Myself, I've been an Azo user since the early 80's. I've known Smith for 2 decades, and frankly......Michael's work is the only imagery I can think of that benefits from the scale of Azo. So if you want to emulate him....then you're SOL.

    I still have a lot of old Azo from the 70's & 80's ,and from what I've seen as far as market demand....I could make a killing selling it .
    Almost all my work is non- Azo these days, but its going to a good home when I decide.

    J....F.......P.......... !

  8. #88
    Curt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,551
    Images
    15
    So is AZO paper better with Amidol or can I use Ansco 130 and still get accptable results? I've also heard that Konvecko is as good with Amidol too. It's of course rebranded contact paper still available in some parts of the world.
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  9. #89
    David Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    near Dallas, TX USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,301
    Images
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
    Obsess over subject matter and light instead of a paper & developer combination.
    ...
    Get over the Azo ...grab your camera , some film and .........

    Do you think photographers doing important work today worry about stuff like this ?
    Well, this thread's on page 9. :rolleyes:

  10. #90

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    Quote Originally Posted by David Brown View Post
    Well, this thread's on page 9. :rolleyes:
    Which of the two options do you think that this indicates?
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  ó   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin