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  1. #21
    Bob K.'s Avatar
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    Thomas,

    For what it's worth, I agree with you. I leave a border and then overmat. For prints with a white border I use a mat with a black core. To my eye, it nicely defines the picture's space. Since I've started printing with Centennial POP, I expose outside the prints space to create a dark border. I now use a mat with a white core, which against the dark border gently leads the eye to the picture itself (once again, at least to my eye).

    bob k.

  2. #22

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    One thing about leaving too much dark space around POP prints for large prints is that the dark border will use up a lot of toner and can be expensive. I tend to leave just enough black to use to frame the print, and then mask the outside border to use less chemicals during processing

  3. #23
    Bob K.'s Avatar
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    Good point Jamie. I do the same thing.

  4. #24
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    While I agree with Michael and Vaughn about how effectively the different surface of the mat board draws the eye to the print there is an additional reason I trim to the edge of the image and mount with the over mat revealing a half inch of visible under board. I believe very strongly in making things by hand and as such in art as an object. I think floating the paper in space, so you can see thickness of the paper itself, helps to make the picture stand out as such an object....

  5. #25
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Shawn, good point and it is another reason I mount silver gelatin prints that way. It is such a "clean" way of presenting a print.

    Vaughn

    I show about 1/8 inch of black around a platinum print, to show the entire negative, since I compose for the entire negative. There have been some images where the "wings" (where the image flares out to the edge of the film) becomes distracting. In these cases, I have scrapped the image off the neg to give an even border of black...mostly with 4x10 negs which only have one "wing" to begin with (using a cut dark slide in an 8x10 holder).
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  6. #26

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    Vaughn,

    Is the black border part of your vision when making the negative, as it was for Avedon? Or is it just something you do not trim off to prove that you are printing the entire negative?

    Michael A. Smith

  7. #27
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Michael,

    I am much of a print-maker as an image maker. I originally showed the entire coated area around the pt/pd print (using a coating rod, this would be at least 3/8 inch on each side -- usually slightly wider on the long ends). I would mat showing up to an inch of the white paper around the black. Basically I wanted to show the whole print, not just the image.

    While the above method was quite nice, the window itself was 10'x13" or so...and needed to have an over-all mat size of 20x24 to look good. It became important to match the print paper with the matboard color, and as I was changing papers occasionally (due to supply, changes within the paper itself, etc), this style of matting became difficult to present as a consistant group of photographs. After some thought, I reduced the size of the window opening to include just the 1/8" or so of black around the print...using an 8-ply over-mat and a black wood 16x20 frame. The result is quite stunning (bias warning!).

    I do not have anything to "prove" per se. I can see this way of presentation as an out-growth of how I presented my silver prints (drymounting the trimmed print with an over-sized window), and more importantly, as part of my reason and method of photographing.

    For me photographing is about the art of seeing. I artificially place barriers in front of myself by printing full frame and without burning or dodging. It forces me to see more intensly as I wander through the redwoods, etc...knowing that I must see and reconize the light -- and transform/transfer that light onto the negative and then the print without further manipulation of the relationship of the tones of the scene (of course exposure/developement, print contrast, and color do get manipulated).

    So while I do not care if others know I use the whole negative or not, it is important to me that I do.

    One other consideration, I do not wish to dry-mount a platinum print of a carbon print...as both have the potential of outlasting the paper they are on. So unless I want to have the window cover part of the image, I am limited in presentation methods.

    Avedon used a white background for many of his portraits -- that is when he used the black rebate of the film to give the images a boundary. One does not see it when he uses a gray background. It seems to me as primarily a framing device which is, or became, part of the image itself. So in this sence, yes, I use the black border as part of the final image/print...thus part of my vision.

    Vaughn
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

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