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Thread: 8x10 negs

  1. #21

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    Michael, as I see it, people dont try azo for the significant investment it represents. Why dont you offer a "sampler?" You must have an open box of G2 and G3, if they send you the paper envelope and the the postage money, why dont you have your assistant put 3 or 4 sheets of each grade in the envelope and put it in the mail?

    Most people have empty envelopes of photo paper lying around, if you are willing to do this, you might be able to sell more paper. I would even go as far as saying that it would be good if your assistant included a work print with the sheets, so people can compare.

    You can screeam until you are blue in the face that Azo is a wonderful paper, but your biggest obstacle is the 100 sheet box. Ole is a good example, he is a very good printer, I have seen his photographs, I am sure that with 3 or 4 sheets he could make a judgement if this is a paper he would like to use, hell, even I would try it if you were to do this.

    Give it a thought and learn something from people like Fred Picker, say what you will of him, he was a great promoter of his Zone VI stuff and found ways to make people try his products.

  2. #22

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    Very interesting suggestion, Jorge. We will seriously give it some thought.

  3. #23
    Silverpixels5's Avatar
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    I must admit that the high price of the 100 count box kept me from trying Azo for some time. While I did want to try it, it was a large investment for something that could have turned out to being not to my liking. It wasn't until I got some old 4x5 sheets and a 25 pack of 8x10 on e bay for a few bucks that I saw how good it was. If that hadn't happened I would probably still be holding out and making due to graded enlarging paper for contacts. Its just like anything someone tries to sell...if you know its the best, then give them a sample and rest assured that they will come back for more.
    RL Foley

  4. #24
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    I began to buy Zone VI Brilliant paper (probably the second incarnation - mid-80s) after I bought one of the prints Fred Picker sold for $25.00. He made them from negatives that didn't require dodging or burning, and he sold them in part to advertise his paper, and in part so that folks living in the backwoods (as I did then) could see what a good print looked like.

    It worked. My printing improved a great deal from studying the print, and I bought his paper to print on. Wish I had known about Azo then.
    juan

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge
    Michael, as I see it, people dont try azo for the significant investment it represents. Why dont you offer a "sampler?" You must have an open box of G2 and G3, if they send you the paper envelope and the the postage money, why dont you have your assistant put 3 or 4 sheets of each grade in the envelope and put it in the mail?

    Most people have empty envelopes of photo paper lying around, if you are willing to do this, you might be able to sell more paper. I would even go as far as saying that it would be good if your assistant included a work print with the sheets, so people can compare.

    You can screeam until you are blue in the face that Azo is a wonderful paper, but your biggest obstacle is the 100 sheet box. Ole is a good example, he is a very good printer, I have seen his photographs, I am sure that with 3 or 4 sheets he could make a judgement if this is a paper he would like to use, hell, even I would try it if you were to do this.

    Give it a thought and learn something from people like Fred Picker, say what you will of him, he was a great promoter of his Zone VI stuff and found ways to make people try his products.
    Jorge,

    You may not recall but I made that offer here some months ago. I had two that said they wanted to buy the paper and then did not follow through. Based upon their stated desire I bought 1000 sheets of grades two and three. I am really rather happy that they did not follow through now. The 2000 sheets that I now have should keep me in paper for awhile.

  6. #26

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    You may not recall but I made that offer here some months ago
    Drat... I missed the offer.... is there still a chance of acquiring 50 sheets of each grade?

  7. #27

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    Paula and I have discussed this and you are absolutely right. To increase our Azo business we should give away samples. A few problems do arise, however. Three or four sheets are just not enough. someone would need at least ten of each, and for that amount we would have to charge for the paper, plus for the time to sort it out. We were selling those few 25-sheet packages for $35 (Grade 2) and $45 (Grade 3) so that our time was covered. I thought that anyone who would pay that much was crazy and should get the 100-sheet box for little more than twice as much and I tried to talk those few who wanted to buy a 25-sheet package out of it, but they insisted.

    But to get back to the point of this. As I said, Paula and I discussed this and you are absolutely right. To increase our Azo business we should give away samples. And yes, we would like to sell as much Azo as possible--but not to make money. We would like to sell as much Azo as possible so we can keep the paper in production.

    However, unlike Fred Picker with Zone VI, and unlike camera stores, selling paper is not our business. We make so little from it each year and it already takes valuable time away from our real work--making photographs. We make our living by selling our photographs, not by selling paper. Paula and I discussed it and decided that, although it may be good business, we simply do not have the time to do this--nor does our assistant have the time. We can easily keep him busy 24 hours a day as it is.

    So, if those who do not want to commit to buy the paper in 100-sheet boxes because they are afraid they won't like it, do not buy it, they do not buy it. I can't help that. Photography is not an inexpensive venture. I am aware that the cost of a couple of hundred sheets of paper can loom as an overwhelming expense for someone. I've been there, and much worse. But somehow, if I heard that something might be better, somehow I always came up with the money to buy it. Usually that meant taking on more debt. I do not expect others to do that, but if people really want something they will find a way to get it.

    I would think that there have been enough comments about Azo floating around since I first wrote about it in View Camera back in 1996, to convince anyone who desires to make excellent silver contact prints to try it. If my comments and those of others are not convincing, that's okay, no one has to use Azo.

    But it is a good idea, and if Paula and I were in the paper-selling business, we would do what has been suggested.

    We have thought of selling the inexpensive Azo print, a la Picker. But a few years later, we have not yet had the time and peace of mind to even pick out which prints we would use, let alone make them. One of these days we hope to get to it.

  8. #28
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    Hi Michael,

    By the way, how are azo sales going? Do you think Kodak will continue to hang in there? I definitely want to try this paper at some stage but most likely will not be ready for it until late next year. I have also been told my large format pulse xenon enlarger might be able to enlarge onto azo, so I may experiment with that too...

  9. #29
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    "We have thought of selling the inexpensive Azo print, a la Picker. But a few years later, we have not yet had the time and peace of mind to even pick out which prints we would use, let alone make them. One of these days we hope to get to it."

    One thing you could do. Make some 'teaser' azo example prints, take a black permanent marker and on 1/4 of the print write "AZO SAMPLE PRINT". Then post the print in our sales gallery. I would think many people would buy them up for a reasonable price, $10-30? This way people could get a general idea of the quality and you do not have to compromise your Gallery level prints. Just a thought..

  10. #30
    Eric Rose's Avatar
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    Luke, may the force of the pulse xenon be with you. I may be a rube but I can't see how using AZO can be such a silver bullet. It's my understanding that you cannot utilize all the bullets available with conventional papers, like flashing, split grade printing, water bath development, selective contrast control, bleaching etc etc etc that master printers routinely use to produce stunning prints. Conventional papers and their chemistry is easily available and relatively cheap. And don't try and tell me you don't have to do all that stuff once you switch to AZO, I don't believe it for one minute. If AZO was so great all the best printers would be using it. They aren't so that speaks volumes to me anyway.
    www.ericrose.com
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