Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 75,802   Posts: 1,671,669   Online: 947
      
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 78

Thread: 8x10 negs

  1. #31

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,020
    Images
    1
    In my experience it all has to do with the size of the negative that determines the paper. I like contact printing because my negatives are quite large, my smallest is 8x10. I am able to limit the need for a fully equipped darkroom. I used to have an 8x10 enlarger and it was a pain to live with. I doubt I would be considering using AZO if I was shooting 35mm or even up to 6x9. For me it is just not big enough. I will be ordering one box of each grade in 8x10 because I do not think it is expensive for all that it could potentially give me. Not the least of which is convenience. And I do like the Bergger paper too but I need something to compare it by in order to frame a more educated opinion.
    Francesco

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    Quote Originally Posted by EricR
    Luke, may the force of the pulse xenon be with you. I may be a rube but I can't see how using AZO can be such a silver bullet. It's my understanding that you cannot utilize all the bullets available with conventional papers, like flashing, split grade printing, water bath development, selective contrast control, bleaching etc etc etc that master printers routinely use to produce stunning prints. Conventional papers and their chemistry is easily available and relatively cheap. And don't try and tell me you don't have to do all that stuff once you switch to AZO, I don't believe it for one minute. If AZO was so great all the best printers would be using it. They aren't so that speaks volumes to me anyway.
    Eric,
    You are correct that there are many good papers available and there is a great deal in the way of printing techniques available. In fact I use a couple of papers other then Azo in my efforts.

    So why would I use Azo if I am able to get good results with other papers? Simply because the quality is far and away better. No, the need for pre-flashing, split contrast printing, masking, etc does not exist with Azo. The printing with Azo involves burning, dodging, and occasional water bath development...That is as difficult as it gets. Azo is a longer scale material and it will carry more information over a greater contrast range.

    I have no axe to grind here. I already know how to do the manipulations that other printers use and a few others that they haven't figured out yet.

    Let's face it carrying a 4X5 is a small matter compared to carrying an 8X10 or 12X20. 4X5 is a heck of a lot less work then exposing the big negatives, it costs a whole lot less, and I find that the results are an indication of the effort and money saved. Azo is a contact printing paper...that means exposing big negatives. How many of these other great photographers/printers shoot anything larger then 5X7?. Most of them, I have found, shoot 4X5. That may be the single greatest reason that most of the other "great" printers do not use Azo.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Alaska
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    12
    Eric,

    "If AZO was so great all the best printers would be using it."

    Using Azo means making contact prints. I am assuming that the "best printers" you are referring to are making enlargements. Azo is not realistically an option for enlarging, at this time.

    THE best printers are using Azo. That would be Michael A. Smith and Paula Chamlee. Their prints are the best I have seen, ever, and I've seen prints by most of the "big names."

    However, I don't believe that any negative will print better on Azo. One of the reasons for the print quality of Michael and Paula is their negatives; it's not just the Azo. And of course their experience and taste.

    I've been using Azo for about a year now (though I had been making contact prints for 15 years) and learned how to use it from the information available free on Michael and Paula's web site. My prints are significantly better thanks to switching.

    There are some of my negatives that still benefit from the local contrast contral that split-printing permits, and this can't be done with Azo, since it is a graded paper (or at least not in the same way). And I still enlarge onto other papers. But for contact printing Azo is clearly superior to enlarging papers, for most negatives, in my opinion.

    George

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    660
    Yes, Sean, you should be able to use a pulse xenon light source to print on Azo. I have seen it done by someone who makes huge enlargements on Azo. (Not the fellow who is inventing the new light source.)

    Kodak is committed to continuing to make Azo. They are currently making a new run of both Grade 2 and Grade 3. So it looks like, for a few years in any case, we don't have to worry. It does not hurt us to stay vigilant, however.

    As others have stated, Eric, and you can believe it or not--all of that flashing (though very occasionally still do that even with Azo), selective contrast control, bleaching, and masking, are simply not necessarty with Azo. Water bath development is often used. But nothing gets easier than doing that.

    And also as stated, those you call the "best" silver printers generally do not make contact prints.

    In his book, Examples, when discussing the photograph, Tenaya Creek, Dogwood, Rain, Ansel Adams wrote, "Many years ago I made a print of this negative on a contact paper that, when fully toned in selenium, had a marvelous color. It is one of the most satisfactory prints I have ever made, and I have not been able to duplicate it with contemporary enlarging papers. The paper I used might have been Agfa Convira or Kodak Azo. Both were coated with silver-chloride emulsions, which tone faster and give more color than the predominant bromide or chloro-bromide emulsions of today." These statements make me wonder why Adams didn’t use Azo more often. Surely he saw that it was a finer paper than the enlarging papers he was using.

    Both Edward and Brett Weston printed on exclusively on contact printing paper. Brett, until the 1970s, used Azo. When he started using small negatives and enlarginghe did switch. I could never understand. All connisseurs of the fine print prefer his contact prints.

    Bottom line is tha you do not have to believe me or what anyone else says about this. But if you really care about quality, and if you make contact prints, it would seem to me that you are shortchanging yourself if you don't at least try printing on Azo.

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,704
    After watching Art Wright's DVD on Brett Weston, the answer as to why he switched from large to medium format ( & from contact printing to enlarging) was his subject matter - close-ups that were more conveniently done in medium format ( Nancy Newhall's conclusion in audio portion of DVD). I, too, like his subject material, and find the 4X5 a convenient size ( & alot less strain on my back).

    For those like myself who don't shoot 8X10 or larger, yet who appreciate the results of an Azo print, enlarged negatives either via digital route or internegatives may be an answer. Ed Buffaloe's site has a good article on internegatives http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/NbyR/nbyr.html For those like the original poster who already have the 8X10s, Azo is worth the investment for the almost 3D quality & tonal range of the print.

  6. #36
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,894
    Images
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael A. Smith
    These statements make me wonder why Adams didn’t use Azo more often. Surely he saw that it was a finer paper than the enlarging papers he was using.
    But Michael, if Adams had stayed with contact prints he wouldn't have been able to justify that huge 8x10 horizontal enlarger, reportedly built as part of a government contract. What a toy it must have been!

  7. #37
    juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    St. Simons Island, Georgia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,646
    Images
    4
    Lest folks think big negatives are required for contact printing on Azo, I've begun contact printing negatives I make with my 2-1/4x3-1/4 Speed Graphic. They can be very nice if put in a place where close viewing is possible.

    And thanks to JandC for importing sheet film for this camera again.
    juan

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    660
    Paula has been talking about wanting a Hasselblad (good luck) and making only contact prints with it. This coming weekend she will be borrowing a friend's camera and using it for the next month while we are in Europe printing our books.

    And just last night we received an email from a fellow who uses 35mm and makes digital negatives. He was making Piezo's and tried to print on Azo. His comment: "After seeing one of my photos printing on Azo in Amidol I can see why you love it. Absolutely gorgeous. Much better than Piezo. I've just
    ordered 6 more image setter negs."

    So, yes, Azo is not only for those who use very large cameras.

  9. #39
    Sean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,763
    Blog Entries
    7
    Images
    15
    "shooting with a large camera might become a very hard sell"

    unless you are adamant that the 'final image' is not 'all that matters', and you do not want the soul of your image destroyed by interpolation and other photoshop nasties

  10. #40
    bmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,156
    Images
    9
    Yeah Sean... Explain! hehe
    hi!

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin