Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,675   Posts: 1,481,942   Online: 1084
      
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 37

Thread: POP ?

  1. #21
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,707
    Images
    65
    Ian;

    We could form a joint venture company and make POP, Azo/Lupex in 4 grades, Kodabromide/Brovira in 3 grades, and the old Super X ortho film in LF. That rocks!

    PE

  2. #22
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,940
    Images
    148
    My guess is that Dixons still have drawings for small coating machines, and they made everything needed for emulsion manufacture etc, film & paper drying, slitting, rewinding etc.

    They were still advertising everything needed in the BJ of P Almanac in 1961, and they are still producing coating machines today

    So it's not as daft as it sounds

    Ian

  3. #23
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,707
    Images
    65
    Just the minimum order of rolls of paper and film would break us!

    I think it is 8 rolls, 42" x 5000 ft minimum. And, usually you don't want to coat modern day FB on the same machine as film so you need 2 machines. Another

    PE

  4. #24
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,940
    Images
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Just the minimum order of rolls of paper and film would break us!

    I think it is 8 rolls, 42" x 5000 ft minimum. And, usually you don't want to coat modern day FB on the same machine as film so you need 2 machines. Another

    PE
    There are always ways around these sorts of obstacles, and they are far easier than you might first think

    Some things best said off forum

    Ian

  5. #25
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,940
    Images
    148
    Ilford made a POP paper of their own until quite recently. Could this be manufactured again ? The current staff may not realise that, Simon Galley et al weren't working for Ilford when I visited Mobberley few times in the early 80's. In fact the research & sales departments didn't know that the "Barfen" liquid emulsion at that time was made by Ilford. It was only when someone from Ilford sales approached the company behind Barfen branded products that they found it was from the Ilford Nuclear emulsions division, based in London.

    So Simon could the Ilford POP paper be manufactured again. Last time I saw a reference it was in a Ilford kit for schools as an intro to photography, making photograms etc.

    Ian

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    In fact the research & sales departments didn't know that the "Barfen" liquid emulsion at that time was made by Ilford. It was only when someone from Ilford sales approached the company behind Barfen branded products that they found it was from the Ilford Nuclear emulsions division, based in London.
    Ian
    Ian, can you give more details on this "someone" and how you came to learn it was an Ilford product?
    I wonder how accurate your 2nd hand info really is...
    I say that with no disrespect intended...
    it is just that my 2nd hand info clashes with yours... again.

    In 1995, I learned that Barfen emulsion was a Kentmere product; and that makes a lot of sense. The nuclear emulsion could of course have been used, but it would have been different in nature from the ordinary emulsions and this probably could have been noticed by a side by side comparison.

    on or off list ...

    Ray

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I don't have a reference. If I saved all of them that interest me I would have run out of disk space.
    PE
    Photo Engineer stated that, in another thread, Simon Galley said reengineering of the UF wash system was involved in (necessary for or problematic in ?) producing Kentmere's POP at Harman.

    My search skills are not as sharp as I wish they were; Can anyone find it?
    or remember such a post?

    Ray

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Van Buren, Arkansas
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,412
    Images
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
    Photo Engineer stated that, in another thread, Simon Galley said reengineering of the UF wash system was involved in (necessary for or problematic in ?) producing Kentmere's POP at Harman.


    Ray
    If they can't produce Kentmeres POP paper, then they should consider producing one of the Ilford POP papers that in their archives.

  9. #29
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,940
    Images
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
    Ian, can you give more details on this "someone" and how you came to learn it was an Ilford product?
    I wonder how accurate your 2nd hand info really is...
    I say that with no disrespect intended...
    it is just that my 2nd hand info clashes with yours... again.

    In 1995, I learned that Barfen emulsion was a Kentmere product; and that makes a lot of sense. The nuclear emulsion could of course have been used, but it would have been different in nature from the ordinary emulsions and this probably could have been noticed by a side by side comparison.

    on or off list ...

    Ray
    Ray, yes I could give you the names of the people involved at Ilford that I used to deal with. The names aren't secret but they are stored with my paperwork & books in the UK. The two main people I used to deal with have left Ilford, and I had no contact with them after about 1984/5.

    My sources weren't 2nd hand as I was direct discussions with Ilford at the time, and trialling Ilfospeed Grade 3 emulsion, which they wanted to sell to me. I was taken for lunch in Alderley Edge by Ian? Pilkington and a senior research chemist and it was while talking over our meal I mentioned the Barfen product. In the end after discovering the Barfen emulsion came unofficially from the Nuclear emulsions division the senior management made a policy decision not to supply any raw emulsions to outside companies. This was some time around 1983 give or take a year, so it's quite likely Barfen turned to Kentmere for their liquid emulsion. This would tally with your information.

    Ian

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    My sources weren't 2nd hand as I was direct discussions with Ilford at the time, and trialling Ilfospeed Grade 3 emulsion, which they wanted to sell to me. I was taken for lunch in Alderley Edge by Ian? Pilkington and a senior research chemist and it was while talking over our meal I mentioned the Barfen product. In the end after discovering the Barfen emulsion came unofficially from the Nuclear emulsions division the senior management made a policy decision not to supply any raw emulsions to outside companies. This was some time around 1983 give or take a year, so it's quite likely Barfen turned to Kentmere for their liquid emulsion. This would tally with your information.

    Ian
    That might explain it, and then the data would tally as you say.

    But, it is still fuzzy where the info came from... it sounds (sounded) like you were told, by a sales rep, who was unaware of it at the time you mentioned it, and [here comes the fuzzy part] somehow that person, approaching Barfen handlers, heard that it was Ilfords emulsion, and he told you. That still sounds 2nd hand to me...

    So just to be clear, were you told (a)at that meeting, or (b)later, it was an Ilford product? (this part is not clear to me) ...

    Was the person who told you involved actually involved in selling it to Barfen people and therefore knew firsthand, or had he got the info from someone else and if so who?

    I guess I could go on trying to pin you down, but I won't;
    I do not want to appear as though I doubt you, or worse, that I just want to give you a hard time...
    it is just that I HATE rebranding when it is done in secret;
    I think it is a very bad way to make money and verges on dishonesty.

    I have no problem with private labeling as long as the manufacturer is not concealed.

    I don't want to add to the confusion; My questions are only meant to separate assumptions from known facts.

    Do you or anyone else here know someone involved with Barfen
    that might be able and willing to share some first hand knowledge on this?

    I will pursue it if someone has a name or email address...

    As a small aside, it is interesting that your story of Ilford paralells that of Kodak;
    They initially had no policy, but after discovering their uncoated emulsion was being sold for autoradiography, I belive they prohibited it; then allowed it to be sold at a fixed (and higher!) price.

    I am not sure if in your "a...decision not to supply any raw emulsions to outside companies.", "outside companies" meant any at all, but as you are undoubtably aware, Ilford's uncoated medical material is again(?) available.

    So the two stories sort of mirror each other.

    OK well, back to the subject -- On the otherhand,
    my Barfen info IS 2nd hand...
    (a rather respected 2nd hand but 2nd hand nevertheless!)

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin