Obviously amidol is the preferred developer for this type of paper, but if one does not have any amidol, what would be the next preferred developer? I know this is a subjective question.
I have no experience with silver chloride papers and I don't have LF negatives to contact print, but who knows in the future, plus I'm thinking about contact printing my 6x7cm negatives.
Searching my way to perplexion
Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
Does that mean that negatives processed specifically for contact printing on AZO or Lodima, benefit being developed to a higher contrast than those for enlarging papers? Also, which modern film and developers work well with these type of papers? So far, this thread has only mentioned the availability of the new paper and not how to get optimum results from the product.
These questions are not specifically for David, it`s just that I noticed what I have highlighted in bold.
Comparisons of papers
There is some difference of opinion over why and how Azo yields unique results. Well, over and above the fact that it is a contact paper and a chloride paper (not really, but yes for all practical purposes....) Here are the curves of Azo grade 2 and 3 compared to an old favorite of mine, Kodabromide.
These curves have been normalized as much as possible on both the X and Y axes so that when printed out, they can be overlain for comparison. If you do this, you will see that the Azo F3 is about like Kodabromide F2 but with a lower Dmax and the Azo has a softer toe and shoulder thus rendering more detail throughout the entire tone scale of the negative that it can capture.
There is no doubt in my mind that expert handling in the process and using Amidol developers with after rinses further enhance the tonality.
Now, I am not an Azo expert by any means when it comes to printing, but I am an expert in reading these sensitometric curves. Ilford MGIV and Kodak Polycontrast were similar to the Kodabromide. They are all quite different than Azo, and these differences go towards explaining all of the "mystery" here. It is no mystery to me. It is by design!
I like Tri-X and ABC pyro, but that's a matter of personal taste, and yes, Azo likes a negative developed to higher contrast than for enlarging papers.
Originally Posted by Keith Tapscott.
I was very impressed by a print on Lodima that I saw recently through one of the APUG print exchanges that was developed in Agfa Neutol WA 1+15. I used Neutol WA with Azo for a while at 1+15 and 1+7, and it just didn't come close to Ansco 130 or amidol, but the new Lodima paper gets very rich blacks in Neutol WA 1+15, so it may be amenable to a wider range of developers than Azo was.
Amidol and Ansco 130 should produce a similar tonal range, but amidol will give you more flexibility to control contrast with water bath processing, which is a very useful technique with graded papers.
All these subjects are discussed in great detail in the Azo forum at http://www.michaelandpaula.com
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Whoa Michael, I saw your post on the "smokin deal" for a 5x7 or 10x10 Durst. As you know I already have a 5x7 Durst in my darkroom... But how about that rusty and dusty Linhof that's sitting unused and lonely on the floor of your closet?
Help finance that 1150 GS.
To answer Keith Tapscott and Travis Nunn:
Develop negatives that will print on Azo to a higher contrast? Etc.
Yes, this thread is about the availability of the new Lodima paper. All other discussion is in other threads and even more in depth on the Azo Forum at www.michaelandpaula.com under "Azo." And on our web site there are my articles about Azo.
What I have found is that any film and any developer work well, though I like, personally, because of my aesthetic choices, a film that has more straight line and less toe and shoulder. But those are MY aesthetic choices. They need not be everyone else's. As a consequence, for current films I would use TMax 400 rather than Tri-X, but again, and I cannot stress this enough: this is a personal preference and is by no means would it necessarily be the right choice for you.
Same with developers. Start with the one you always use and don't worry about it.
Develop to a higher contrast: I think that is only necessary because there is no grade 4 currently available. I have found that I can print any negative beautifully on Azo--dense, thin, normal. As long as it is not underexposed or too overdeveloped. Again, just do what you do normally and make some prints and see how they look.
No Amidol. I feel Amidol gives the best tones with this paper. But others have gotten tones that please them with other developers. Dektol makes the prints too cool in my opinion. Outside of Dektol, use whatever you have. Only change if you are not happy with the result.
What photography is all about, at least it is for me, are the pictures. One wants them to be well seen (that is the most important thing) and well printed. Since we are discussing the print here (as in print quality), do whatever you do and do not change until you are dissatisfied with your print quality. Then, and only then, look for something that may give you better (in your own terms) results. Folks worry too much about films and developers. Just relax about all of that stuff and go make new pictures.
Michael A. SMith
You have that right. The Linhof is not getting any more use this winter than the Durst enlargers. Next time you come through Colorado leave the back seat out of your van and you can take the Linhof 8x10 Color Karden or the big Durst 184 home with you.
Originally Posted by photobum
Did you get your 800GS?
FWIW, I've had pleasing print tones with Lodima using Ilford/Harman WT print developer dil.1:9 for 1 min. development time. The print tones are slightly warmer then with Amidol. Although these prints did not tone in selenium, diluted 1:25, as readily as the prints developed in Amidol. They did tone but it took longer. The toning was stopped when a hint of red-brown colour was detected in the darker tones.
For me, as it is for many here, a most excellent paper.
Originally Posted by Travis Nunn
We really need to cross paths. I'll be bringing LOTS of Azo prints to the VA get together May 13-15. I'm not sure if I'll be able to hang around for the weekend, but I MAY be able to stay. Perhaps you could arrive Friday afternoon (or sooner). I've never tried Ansco 130, but some photographers I trust tell me they like the tones. I don't think I have ever seen an Azo/Ansco 130 print. I've used Agfa Neutol WA with good results with Azo. I thought Dektol was too green. I've also seen some 6x6 & 6x7 contact prints on Azo and they were wonderful, so don't be afraid to contact print your medium format negatives on Azo/Lodima.