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  1. #81
    bill schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Be sure to take a look at today's entry in Mike Johnston's blog--
    Sad, though very funny. Thanks for pointing this out David. Apparently we've been taking ourselves way too seriously since the start.

  2. #82
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    I too enjoyed that a lot. Thanks, David.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #83

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    Thomas, David, Bill,

    Thank you for speaking clearly. When technical aspects of this art form overwhelm us - the tones; the detail; the depth; the presents; and all the other buzz words that glorify - we loose site of what good photographs are. I'm impressed by some of the print qualities, but never moved emotionally by them. What is photographed transcends all that, the subject is what grabs me, not the beauty of the materials - the manusha.
    Last edited by panastasia; 04-21-2009 at 11:24 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Pictures are not incidental frills to a text; they are essences of our distinctive way of knowing." Stephen J. Gould

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Be sure to take a look at today's entry in Mike Johnston's blog--

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...est-facts.html
    Oh Crap - I just looked into a mirror A whole new meaning to "Through A Glass Darkly"

    Bob H
    "Why is there always a better way?"

  5. #85
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Against my inclination to shut up, I wish to state my opinion:

    I tried to illustrate my thoughts earlier, and make the point that diversity is the lifeblood of photography as it stands. I really hope Lodima is a success for everybody involved (honestly, I do; it's a great project), but also wish that there was a little bit more respect for those that either can't afford LF and ULF, or that simply don't wish to haul an 8x20 or 11x14 camera around, or who wants to be spontaneous with the camera and perfect the art of grab shots.

    It's all good, can't we just agree on that?

    Should we go and look at Cartier-Bresson work and just dismiss it as 'not 100% perfect blacks or tonal gradation'? Or should we stand there in awe and be impressed with the vision of this genius? 35mm genius. Really small film frames for a really big mind.

    I understand that there is a serious effort to sell this paper. I work in marketing for one of the Fortune 100 companies. I know how this stuff works. But reading this thread on more than one occasion I have tried, with diplomacy, to try to nudge the discussion to be more balanced.
    I have tried Azo and Amidol with a lot of negatives of varying contrast. I have read everything Michael Smith has written about the subject matter (that I can find), and been on the Azo forum, etc. And when at the end of the day I compare an image that's contact printed to the best of my ability on Azo using both 130 and Weston's Amidol and pyro negs I see the difference in tonal range. Yes, it's there. But I just don't see that it's better than my enlargements. It's different, different, different, different. Not better. Better is subjective. It's an opinion. Selective reality. Selective truth.

    If I had the patience and energy to haul a ULF camera around, I'd find a way to do it, despite the cost. But I'm not going to. I don't have the patience, and I don't want to waste the energy on it. My point is - it's not for everybody. The prints may be tonally more beautiful, but that's such a small aspect of what makes a photograph great. Does it help a photograph along? Maybe. Do I care? No. The point is - there are more ways than one.

    If you show me your prints I will look at the content, expression, emotion, composition, gesture, and frame. You will have to remind me to look at the tonal values.

    I speak for myself, stating my opinion on photography. I respect your opinion if you respect mine. It's reciprocal.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    If I had the patience and energy to haul a ULF camera around, I'd find a way to do it, despite the cost. But I'm not going to.
    Thomas, you're just not giving all you need to for your photography. Obviously you're not committed to the art...

    (And that should be read with as much sarcasm as possible.)
    Kirk

    For up from the ashes, up from the ashes, grow the roses of success!

  7. #87
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    Thomas,
    I like your opinion. I have taken two of Michael and Paula's workshops and I have to say that I have expanded greatly in my ability to see and frame my work on the ground glass. Now, I have been photography for over 40 years and feel that my work today is better than I have ever done. This is tonal and comp. wise. But since my original workshop with them (4-5 years ago) I have purchased a hassey, pentax 67 and a leica M6. I also have started playing with digitally enlarged negatives for my platinum printing. I still shoot mostly in 8x10, but these smaller cameras bring a whole different world into play that I feel isn't there for 8x10. Do I do landscapes with my hassey or M6? No. do I do street shots with my 8x20? No. Could I? Yes. But that is a chose by me.
    I first look at the photograph just like you do, but if it is presented poorly you don't have to look at the tonal aspect it will show it's ugly head and the work will suffer. Does this mean all zones have to be in a print? No. In fact it could only have 2-3 zones and work very well. I use azo, Lodina, Oriental Seagull, and Platinum. I contact print, enlarge by enlargers or digitally. I use platinum or agfa 130, ( which is so black i can't see the print in the tray, it is 3 years old and only replenished).
    All areas of photography are like a bell curve. At one end you have the extremes, 35, 120, LF, ULF only. then at the other end anything works as long as I can get a image. and everyone else in between. And everyone has a opinion, and photographers are good at that. This makes for great creativity and friends. So!!!! at parties we don't talk about religion, politics. and photography other than as a Art, not on how something should be done.
    well that is my opinion and hope I have not made anyone mad. Just thinking.

    regards
    michael andersen
    "Capturing an image is only one step of the long chain of events to create a beautiful Photograph” See my updated website: mandersenphotography.com

  8. #88

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    Well said Michael.

    My contention is that everyone in business or the arts in their formative years has a mentor that was instrumental in getting them interested in taking such a path. Even when they are well down the road there is still can still be regular influences along this journey we call life that can contribute to the energy that makes you you.

    There can be times when it may sound to certain people that it is only about materials and big cameras, but that is just not the case.

    Michael made some fabulous color enlargements of prisoners in Arizona, Paula did contacts from 6x6 cm negatives and so on. Paula also did a movie. The materials are only a tool to the end product and you still need to pull everything together to make it work. Ansel said that there is nothing worse than a sharp picture of a fuzzy subject. I contend that in the same perspective that a fuzzy picture of a sharp subject can be equally poor.

    If we all saw things the same it would be terribly boring. Cheers!
    Last edited by Michael Kadillak; 04-22-2009 at 09:02 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: typo

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kadillak View Post

    If we all saw things the same it would be terribly boring. Cheers!
    Amen to that.

    Bob H
    "Why is there always a better way?"

  10. #90
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    The only silliness I've ever encountered that's worse than the anal writhing of photographers is the silliness of audiophiles who think they can hear the grass grow. I've seen a host of wonderful images made with a Holga (and I'm no fan of that idiom in itself), and an equal number of cliched, moribund, and stiflingly boring images made with the most arcane of LF and ULF equipment with processing in leprechaun spit and printing on angel feathers.

    My only mantra to myself is to continue to learn to see.
    John Voss

    My Blog

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