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  1. #11
    Les McLean's Avatar
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    The best enlarged negative that I have seen was made by the Ilford UK printer who copied well nkown photographers original negatives of images they used for promotional purposes and the Ilford swatches. His method was to make an 8 x 10 print from the original negative but at 2 grades softer than he would normally use, generally the soft print was made on grade 1. He then copied the flat print on to FP4 and processed it normally, the result was always superb. The first time that I saw this done I had difficulty in deciding which was the copy.

  2. #12
    roy
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    I have made enlarged negatives with Bergger Orthochromatic film BPFB 18 and, as for Aggie's process, you can work with a darkroom safelight which gives you more of a feeling of assurance as you can easily see what you are doing. just like making an enlargement on paper. Once you have your "flattish" positive you have the choice of using that to make negatives of differing nett densitiy ranges to suit the requirements of the processes in which you wish to make your alt.process print. I would like to try Sandy King's method but I do not, at the moment, have a colour printer.
    Roy Groombridge.

    Cogito, ergo sum.
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  3. #13
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    Wow this is an interesting thread, what is the reasoning behind the flat contrast of the interpositive? Is lith film to be used for the interpositive or the enlarged negative, what would the difference be? Why dektol?

    I am totally facinated by this, because one of the photogs who's work took my "breath away" and got me interested in LF is a guy I think named Evans who did church interiors in platinum- I'd love to try it, and there is no way I'm going d****** , so this is for me.

    Matt

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobtown_4x5
    Wow this is an interesting thread, what is the reasoning behind the flat contrast of the interpositive? Is lith film to be used for the interpositive or the enlarged negative, what would the difference be? Why dektol?

    I am totally facinated by this, because one of the photogs who's work took my "breath away" and got me interested in LF is a guy I think named Evans who did church interiors in platinum- I'd love to try it, and there is no way I'm going d****** , so this is for me.

    Matt
    The reasoning behind a flat interpositive is that you don't want to lose any of the detail that the original camera negative contains. I personally do not use lith film for my interpositive. The reasoning for using 100 ISO pan film is that it is a lower contrast material then the lith film. Additionally 100 ISO pan film is easier to control exposure then a 400 ISO material (for instance). I also do not use Dektol for my interpositive. The reasoning is that this is a much more active developer then conventional film developers. The use of these materials at the interpositive stage will hinder producing a flat interpositive in my experience. This by virtue of their inherent characteristics. If you stop and think about it why would one use high contrast film and developer to produce a low contrast (flat) interpositive. That makes no sense to me.

    I have a print of Aggies in which she did an 8X10 enlarged neg of a medium format camera negative. She had to bleach the Azo back extensively to get detail into areas of the print. Azo does require a lot higher DR then conventional negatives for enlarging. But in this particular case apparently the DR of the enlarged negative was beyond the scope of the material's (Azo) characteristics. Azo requires appr .50 log units density increase over a conventional negative designed for purposes of enlarging.

    I have no problem using dilute Dektol on lith film in the enlarged negative stage of the process. My normal dilution for Dektol will be on the order of 1-10 rather then the 1-2 or 1-3 that is normally used in developing paper. This dilution will allow APHS film to perform like a continual tone material. This is the typical dilution that is also used in the production of sharp contrast masks.

    I really encourage those that want more information to read the material that Bob Herbst has written and posted on Ed Buffaloe's site. His article is excellent and follows what I have written. The platinum printers that have articles posted on the internet also do not go for lith film in the interpositive stage. Some do not even use lith film for the copy neg preferring instead to use other materials that they identify on their sites. As I mentioned earlier a Google search under platinum will turn up some more material.

    The beauty of this is that one can photograph a scene with the intention of enlarging the negative. One can then later produce an enlarged negative that will fit the density range of the material or alternative process that is desired.

  5. #15

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    One other thing that I forgot to mention...apparently there is some confusion about the spectral response of lith film and the type of safelight required. Lith film is orthochromatic and the same safelite used with paper is appropriate.

    Obviously if one uses conventional panchromatic film in the interpositive stage then no light is the order of the day.

    Good luck.

  6. #16
    Joe Lipka's Avatar
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    I did this type of thing in the last millenium. Used Lith film for both interpositive and negative. Made the enlarged interpostive, then contact printed lith film interpositive to more lith film to get the enlarged negative. (Why lith film twice? My summer job was at an offset printing plant.)

    Not only can you do a "straight" enlarged print this way, I used varying negatives to create posterizations and then converted the tones to color using colored filters and Beseler color printing tubes. Yes, tube processing in 1974!
    Two New Projects! Light on China - 07/13/2014

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  7. #17
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    I have a print of Aggies in which she did an 8X10 enlarged neg of a medium format camera negative. She had to bleach the Azo back extensively to get detail into areas of the print. Azo does require a lot higher DR then conventional negatives for enlarging. But in this particular case apparently the DR of the enlarged negative was beyond the scope of the material's (Azo) characteristics. Azo requires appr .50 log units density increase over a conventional negative designed for purposes of enlarging.
    I did not bleach it extensively for the reason he states. It was the toning I did to it that I bleac hed it to make the slenium look like chocolate brown. I bleached the print after I had left it in slenium for an extended period. That orginal negatvie I used to enlarge from was extremely thin. Doing the enlarged negative process i was able to fix a few things. Who among us hasn't made a thin negative in the camera to being with?

    As for the differences in the one print Don mentions, I have done it in both Van Dyke and AZO. The van Dyke printed just fine, but the azo just popped. I used the same enlarged negative for both. The toned one is one that gave more of the feel of the orginal antelop canyon. I have one that I did in both AZO and Van Dyke that one of the members back east has also. It is one with ivy covering a door way to an abandoned farm house. That one I will post since the bit of bleaching I did to it was on one of the over hang eves that I just wanted to lighten just a bit. It was not due to the film, in fact it was better than the silver print I had made a few years before that.

    As for making a flat interpositive I have found a few tricks that work for me. If i need it flatter I found I could put one of the filters in the enlarger. That helped. In fact i was told I shouldn't do this. Well it worked and if it works that is good enough for me. The second was to preflash the film. I use two methods for this. One is to take a scrap bit of the film and do a flash similar to what we do for paper. I preflash for just a bit, with a twist. i use a styrofoam cup over the lens to soften the flashing. The second method I use is to hold the sheet of film nearer the safelight. It takes a lot longer, but gives a nice gentle fog that works well for flashing. I just go from there to develop in the dektol. I prefer the more exhausted 1:1 dilution. But that comes down to personal preference. One person I know uses his cigareete lighter to flash the film with. It is not precise enough for me

    I don't use a densitometer and just eyeball the process. After a while you begin to see the subtle changes. You just become comfortable with your materials.

    I found that Arista has some quirks that I don't like about their film. again this personal choice. I stick with the Ilford for this.

    The thing in the end is there are several ways to do this process. Mine works for me. Other methods may suit other people. It is fun to experiment and see what happens. That is what photography is all about. Explore and have fun.

    *post moderated- admin

  8. #18
    Sean's Avatar
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    *thread moderated

  9. #19
    roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobtown_4x5
    a guy I think named Evans who did church interiors in platinumMatt
    Frederick Evans, famous for his photograph " Sea of steps" taken in Wells Cathedral in Somerset.
    There is quite a lot of material available. Liam Lawless and Tilman Crane both have papers available from the net and using differing processes.
    Roy Groombridge.

    Cogito, ergo sum.
    (Descartes)

  10. #20

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    Has anyone tried the direct reversal method?

    I read the article at Unblinking Eye and the reversal method seems to have some merit. Curious if anyone has some feedback.

    I enjoyed the other posts and learned a couple things I didn't know yet.

    Cheers,
    Ian

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