So much for trying to bring it back on an even keel.
"Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank
"Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman
"...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh
um... so you're saying it's ok to call call some of the discussion forums here cults... (especially those crazy Leica-ites )
Originally Posted by doughowk
I hate those looney bastards too.
Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada
Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points
system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...
All this is great news to me; I thought I was just buying paper. I didn’t know that I was going to be in a club.
How Freaking cool is that!
Maybe some black jackets with “Beyond Black” on the back. Hey Doug I could run up to Jacks and we could work on a secret hand shake…Man O Man this rocks!
I only hope that one day my work will advance to the point that there will be this many fellow professionals jealous and envious of its mere existences.
Hey MS, if I double down on my order will you through in a patch (for the jacket)
James T. Kirk stands, feet a little wider than shoulder width apart, chest out, head slightly turned, chin up, looking serious. "Bones....are there....any signs of life?....what does.....your scanner say?"
Bones looks intently at his scanner. "No sign of life in the gelatinous heap, Jim." The heap quivers as the doctor pushes his finger against the mass.
James T. Kirk turns with dramatic flair, looking sadly at the pulverized heap, " My god Spock...... who...... could do this.... to.... to a living creature. What....could it have....been?" Kirk turns and assumes the dramatic pose the scene opened with.
"This, was a horse, Captain. Quite obviously beaten again and again by photographers on an internet forum."
Kirk seemingly stuck in the opening pose "Internet?"
Spock looking like spock always does, "Ancient form of communication dedicated to specific topics and interests."
Once again Kirk turns dramatically to look at the fleshy heap, "Photographers.....Spock?"
Spock still exhibiting his spockness, "It is logical capitan. Those black spots on the dead animal are flash burns."
BOOM! "AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGHHHHH" A member of the landing party wearing a red shirt goes up in flames.
Kirk, whirling into a cat like crouch with phaser out, "My god.... what... was that.... spock?"
"Those same photographers are flaming each other, captain. The dead ensign got caught in the cross fire"
"Bones....Can you save him?" Kirk looks dramatically at the dead red shirted Ensign
"He's dead Jim!"
Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI
So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004
my original reason for starting this discussion is primarily TO GET INFO ON THE BASICS OF CONTACT PRINTING. the reason I chose the title "contact printing weston style" is plainly because I admired the simplicity of how Weston printed, and the beautiful work that he churned out over the years. I also don't have a darkroom set up at home, barely the space to keep trays(11x14 max) and bottles of chems. I'm from a 4 child, 6 person home, so space is limited! I don't have the luxury of having a glorious darkroom like some of you have, heck, my enlarger and timers,grain focusers, etc. are in the garage all boxed up ! So I've decided to start with a simple 'clamp-light' with a 7.5watt halogen bulb in it. Total cost for two of the lights, 7.5watt bulb and a safelight bulb(red)? about $25. so doing quality printing in a CHEAP($$$ wise) is my goal. just like Weston
I've decided that I'd like to spend more time with LF, getting to really know WHAT DRIVES ME as a photographer, and at the same time, using the best materials and tools that I can afford. But being that I would like to print at home, in the 2nd bathroom(after everyone else has gone to bed) so I can have some alone time to myself, rather than being with others in the darkroom at school.
I'm still trying to convince my parents that I really want to do this, they are still not totally into the idea of chemicals unknown to them being poored down the drain, and they still have the notion in their heads that I will be using 10k gallons of H2O a night during a printing session. I won't .
I'm sad to see that some people have seen this thread as a platform to bellow as loud as they can their opinions, when no one has asked. but I do appreciate those of you who have given me some terrific information into materials I want to eventually try out.
Michael A. : I will try Lodima one of these days, after I've gotten settled into contact printing with traditional silver papers. At this time, I simply can't afford the paper . I've been graciously gifted a good assortment of Ilford and *some*(25-50shts) of Agfa FB paper. I'll be starting with this....
but I will try Lodima as soon as my student budget can allow it .
so please, can we keep this thread ON TRACK and leave our opinions in their place, unless specifically asked? its not that I don't appreciate your experience or results with it, but some(other than myself) feel that you might be attacking them personally. I don't know any of you on here personally(well, maybe 1, but not really), but I would like to get to know some of you even better.
I've gleaned SOOOO much info from this site over the last year, and its been a great resource for me. But as I tighten my spending on toys and new cameras, and get down to making quality images, I need solid materials, and the best I can afford.
Lodima, please wait a little longer. I'll be calling your name eventually .
MAS, thanks for your insight! I've been directed to your forum on your site, and I've started reading through it, along with the articles and 'writings' on your site. Blessings to you and Paula.
please, lets keep this thread going. Even though I'm not technically "up and running" yet, I'd still love to retain as much info and experience from you all that you're willing to lend!
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I can appreciate your frustration. If you are of the mind, contact me 'off list' with your home address and I will
forward you a dozen or so sheets of Azo (Grade 2) that are presently resting quietly in my freezer. They are a bit 'old'.. from about 1980.. but having, in the past, used Azo that was over 25 years old (unrefrigerated), it worked well.
From that experience I will assume that the couple of boxes that presently reside in my freezer should work well enough
to give you a 'feel' for a chloride paper.
There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in,
But they're ever so small that's why rain is thin.
Contact me by email and I will see that you get some of the Lodima paper. And then give me a call and I will help you through the process--and talk to your folks if you think that would be helpful. Nothing in the chemicals is toxic. I can assure them of that.
Time for you to get started printing.
Michael A. Smith
PLEASE take Ken and Michael up on their offers. I started contact printing with a fancy Zone VI VC head and VC paper using Dektol. I can't imagine a bigger waste of time, materials and $$. DON'T do it!!!!!!
If you will PM me your address, I'll pitch in with some Neutol WA developer. I'd send you some Amidol, but the Neutol is ALMOST as good and easier to get started with in my opinion. While I use Michael Smith's Amidol all the time in my darkroom, I keep the Neutol around in case I just want to do a quick proof or test or something and don't want to mix up a liter of Amidol.
There is a reason why Michael Smith has a "cult" (someone else's term, not mine) following. Because it is an inexpensive, EASY, repeatable way to get excellent prints. While it's NOT the only way to get there it certainly is a very good way. And the Azo Forum is a gold mine of information! If you read the posts by my fellow Azo/Lodima "cult" (there's that word again) members you will see words like "easy" or "cheating". Peter Schrager says using Azo is like cheating because, once you start to learn the materials, it is SO EASY to obtain a fine print. Bruce Barlow says he can get to a final print in about 2-3 sheets of Azo vs 4-7 sheets with other papers. I too, often get to final prints in 3 sheets of Azo. You can control contrast by using a water bath.
Do yourself a favor and check out, on the Azo Forum, discussions about the 300 watt R40 lightbulbs and buy one for yourself. Buylights.com has the best prices. I should know becasue I just purchased some of these bulbs. I'm sure the first time you try to dodge/burn VC paper under a 7.5 watt bulb you will shoot yourself. Slow silver chloride papers under a bright light allow you to SEE the negative. Also, see if you can't rig up a safe light right above the developer tray. A bright safe light will allow you to SEE what is going on in the developer so you will know when to pull a print to put in the water bath. I love my Thomas Safe Light, but they can be a little hard to hang in mom's bathroom.
Your current negatives, might not be best suited to the negatives that work best with Azo/Lodima, so I would recommend you read up on the various Pyro developers. You can order Pyrocat-HD (my favorite) pre-mixed from Photographers Formulary. It is really cheap when you consider how much developer can be mixed from 500ml of stock solution and when mixed with Glycol will keep on your shelf almost forever.
Good luck Daniel and enjoy the journey!
thanks ken, MAS and JGJBOWEN,
I really appreciate your answers! I just realized that this thread got out of hand, and I wanted to get it back on track .
what is the reasoning for using pyro developers? after a while, does the staining effect on the negs go away/fade? Do different variations of pyro (weston's formula, standard pyro, pyrocat hd, etc...)? what differs in them?
I've been using HC-110 and D-76 1:1 up until now for all my b/w film, what does the pyro do(besides staining, which helps keep highlights from blowing out?)
I'm a complete novice in all of this, as you might already can assume . But I'm eager to learn, and wanting to start creating some art!
blessings to all of you!
jg, MAS, and KenS, I've sent you all PM's regarding what you offered.
This is a really entertaining thread. Keep it going!
It is not whether you are part of a cult, it is whether you are in the right cult.
Stick it to those uppity Leica guys. Yeah!!!