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  1. #11
    cjarvis's Avatar
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    I fix POP (and VDB) with Rapid Fix (ammonium thiosulfate); I just don't use the hardener. Works fine. I've always done it that way, but I'll try some sodium thiosulfate to compare results. Stay tuned.

    By the way every time a question about POP comes up, I always do my best to endorse it and convince people to give it a try. I'm not Michael Smith vis-a-vis AZO about it, but I think it's a worthy paper. You need pretty near bullet-proof negs to fully exploit its advantages, but man, when you hit one...

    www.redhillphoto.com/poptips.html
    (Sorry for the shameless self-promotion)

  2. #12
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    >You need pretty near bullet-proof negs to fully exploit its advantages, but man, when you hit one...<

    That's because it has what is called self masking properties. It's the reason a lot of old negative can't be printed with regular techniques.
    "Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect."

  3. #13
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by garryl
    That's because it has what is called self masking properties. It's the reason a lot of old negative can't be printed with regular techniques.
    Negatives developed in Pyrocat-HD work very, very well. But even more "modern" development (read: thin) negatives work well if the image is toned after fixing, at least in my admittedly very brief experience. The example I put in the Technical Gallery is toned before fixing, and even that went rather well. That negative is far from bulletproof!

    But I agree that bulletproof negatives (or pyro-stained oned) print better.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  4. #14
    cjarvis's Avatar
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    Ole, I've been surprised by some thin negatives that print really well. Those have usually been accidental discoveries for me, though. Should I give my pitch for gold borax toner now?

  5. #15
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    Hoe does the Retrophotographic compare with the stuff put out by chicago Albumen Works?
    No escaping it!
    I must step on fallen leaves
    to take this path

  6. #16

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    I have been told they are the same, and made by Kentmerre, though, of course I have no first hand knowledge.
    David Boyce

    When bankers get together for dinner, they discuss art. When artists get together for dinner, they discuss money. Oscar Wilde Blog fp4.blogspot.com

  7. #17
    Ole
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    I have a little more experience with the stuff now - I bought a bigger pack of 8x10s.

    I have no idea if Retrophotographic POP is the same as Chicago Albumen Works', I have only tried the one. I believe they are both made by Kentmere, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're identical.

    Cjarvis, fixing with rapid fix will bleach the highlights, unless you tone before fixing. That may be why you feel you need bulletproof negs? Mine are far from bulletproof, although I get better results with very long scale negatives. I sometimes use (very dilute) rapid fix as a bleach; both for POP and van Dyke.

    I use Tetenal gold toner - I believe it's a borax toner. Works wonderfully, and can give an astonishing range of tones - as well as an astonishing range of tonalities. It all depends on how and when you use it.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  8. #18
    cjarvis's Avatar
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    Ole,
    Don't your highlights bleach somewhat no matter what fixer you use? For that matter, doesn't the whole damned print bleach somewhat in processing? I always let it go until my shadows are completely solarized, then I look for a lot of detail in the highlights...that's when I stop printing.

    Here's something interesting about POP. If you tone in gold, tone before fixing; but if you tone in selenium, fix before toning. You'll get a more pronounced bleaching effect with the latter, but selenium is really versatile. I tone in a 2-3% solution...should take about 45 seconds to get a nice chocolate color.

  9. #19
    Ole
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    No, the whole pint lightens in fixing but regains the full range when dry. I only get significant bleaching in rapid fix.

    Gold toning before or after fixing gives very different results: Before fixing it can retain some of the warm colours, after fixing it goes significantly cooler along with darker midtones and shadows. This is useful to adjust the curves - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

    I've never got good results with selenium toning, possibly because I expose much less than you do? I find that the whole print goes mush grey-brown in KRST. Maybe I should try hihger dlution? Maybe I should try Viradon (old)? Maybe I should mix up some palladium toner?

    But I think I'll just wait for summer, sunshine and good exposure (9 minutes in smmer sun = 9 days in winter gloom).
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  10. #20

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    I tried this last winter & found it to be OK. But the amount of work & exposure involved was a real pain in the backside... if I am going to use something that takes that much time I use Ziatype Platinum printing. I like it better, time factor is about the same and I feel I have more control over how the image looks.

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