Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,687   Posts: 1,482,348   Online: 868
      
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29
  1. #11
    bmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,156
    Images
    9
    Blame Canada Blame Canada! hehe
    hi!

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,231
    Images
    9
    Brian, I agree that non-photographers are sometimes very helpful. SOmetimes it is good to have a pair of eyes that are not clouded by all of the testing, all of the brands and styles and proceedures. I find the honesty refreshing.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  3. #13
    bmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,156
    Images
    9
    ok, I thought I was pretty clear about that in my initial post. I apologize if that was not the case.
    hi!

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,933
    from the comments the postcards and prints that wing their way past my desk, non-photo people don't give a rats what paper qualities or technicalities a print possess... they look at the picture. Which explains why someone looks at 'family' shots and as long as their face is somewhat recognisable, it doesn't matter that it's fuzzy, the colour is wrong, they only take up half the available area and there's a tree growing out of their head, it's a 'good shot' to them. In fact, if it hasn't got a person in the pic, they don't even finish their first look at it!

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New Zealand
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,410
    Images
    4
    True point Nige. I've done similar tests for the same reasons Brian (which incidently found very helpful for me btw) and I did notice a pattern involving the contrast of a print.

    If two similar prints were shown side by side, with one having noticeably higher contrast than the other; invariably the higher contrast print was more popular. Even noticed this for prints that I would have considered technically inferior to the lesser contrast version. (perhaps a different result from photographers of course).

    May not be relevant for you, but just a thought.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,065
    Images
    39
    One thing you might want to consider is trying to match the contrast of the three papers. One paper's "grade 2" is often another papers "grade 3". I'd use a stouffer 31 step step wedge, make prints on each of the papers, and then adjust the contrast of the other two papers to AZO; and then make your comparison prints with the adjusted contrast values. Show them to whoever, and see if this makes a difference.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    958
    Nige,
    I disagree with your point about family pictures - respectfully, of course! Non photographers are often better at picking out the picture which captures A. the essence of the person rather than B: the technical or compositional elements of the picture. Whenever I pick B and they pick A, I know they're right. Of course, A + B is the best of all possible worlds, but A is better than B.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    68
    Images
    6
    Brian I have always found that there never is a one tonality fits all. Some of the negs I find "look" better on a cold toned paper others on a warm, I think matching the print colour to a specific image is a good way to go.

    I think John hit on something when he mentioned that people seemed to like the contrastier image. People like drama! Ansel knew this, I always found it funny that he said to make negs to print on grade 2 paper then he goes off and makes them on higher grades- to get the drama. Have a look at the work of Roman Loranc or Michael kenna as two examples of what I mean.
    Andy

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    I think that there is one thing that applies as much to Azo as it does to any other paper. That is that it takes local contrast to make a print glow. Now what Ansel Adams spoke about was overall contrast and he failed, in my opinion, to deal with local contrast.

    So even though grade two Azo will handle a negative density range of 1.65 in my testing and grade three will handle a negative density range of 1.35 again in my testing, this doesn't acknowledge the issue of local contrast.

    So how does this apply to local contrast and Azo? It means to me that in order to gain the local contrast that we need to build a density range above those that my tests show. How then does one handle this excess overall density range? It is, I believe, through Amidol and water bath development. I would think that a negative of 1.80 for grade two Azo and water bath developed would have incredible tonality and also local contrast.

    The thing that I gathered from Brians post and reply is that I am not at all surprised that when the Ilford and PW both printed at grade two would be preferable to Azo. The reason is that the negative more closely matched the characteristics of an enlarging paper then of Azo.

    A normal density range for diffusion enlarging (1.25) would still not match grade three Azo.

    As I said earlier I haven't gotten to the point of utilizing all of Azo's potential. But I do recognize, I think, what needs to happen for me to do so.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,021
    Images
    1
    Another consideration is the choice of film. In my work I can never really get Classic 400 to print well on new AZO G2 - too flat, no glow. On Grade 3 with some water bath a Classic 400 neg is a perfect match. Nevertheless, with Efke PL100 I can get the density and contrast to work with new G2 and the print beats any G3 print I have - local contrast is there in spades!
    Francesco

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin