Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,571   Posts: 1,545,628   Online: 976
      
Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 104
  1. #61

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    652
    Thanks for clarifying, Steve.

    Kodak, as I said, leaves a lot to be desired. but, as it happens, they make the only contact printing paper, so we use them. The minimums were horrendous this last time, and they will be getting much worse, but the product is there.

    I agree, Jorge, this should not be an Azo issue. But I didn't bring it up and had to clarify Burkhardt's comment as quoted by Steve.

    I'm all for supporting smaller businesses as long as the products are as good. If not, I have no alternative but to go to the big companies.

    Michael A. Smith

  2. #62
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,290
    Images
    20
    Was the fine-art sector ever important to Kodak? Some well meaning people at Kodak have done good things for artists, like finding a way to make a batch of desensitizer for Yousef Karsh when it had been discontinued and saving Azo thanks to Michael and Paula's efforts, and they've used artists to test their products when it was a matter of mutual interest, but the basic business model and the bulk of the revenue stream was always "you push the button, we do the rest."
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  3. #63
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,290
    Images
    20
    P.S.: Can I just say what an incredible thing it is that we can all have a civilized discussion where strong and interesting views on a difficult issue are expressed by such eminent folks as Steve Anchell and Michael Smith in an environment of reason and mutual respect? You'd almost think this wasn't the internet. Three cheers for APUG!
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  4. #64

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,512
    Images
    4
    Except for the unique relationship between Michael/Paula and Kodak, I can't think of any other real cooperation with B&W users except with John Sexton among others who did a lot of field testing for TMAX films in the early 80s.

    That is the way most major corporations are today. you have the designers and engineers on one side and the bean counters on the other and neither is interested about input from the end user because what they really need or want does not fit the preconcieved ideas and budgets of the company beauracracy.

  5. #65

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    963
    The horns of the dilema are these:

    1. should I continue to buy certain Kodak products which I consider superior to the competition, specifically in my case Tri-x professional sheet and roll, thereby increasing the chances that everyone's out of the sheet film business in 5 years?

    2. should I support the little guy and ensure Kodak's exit from the market and increase the chances that the little guys will still be around when I need them?

    this is not a generic question, if we were talking about camera stores, my answer would absolutely be #2 (substitued B&H for Kodak). But in this case, the little guys seem to be hanging in by charging a premium price. (I'm thinking here of Bergger's excellent printing papers). I've seen nothing to indicate that Bergger is about to go under.

    I side with Michael on this one, I want to keep kodak in the game for their tri-x professional, 5x7 color film, and 400 speed color neg film in sheet film sizes. Nothing indicates that the sky is falling, yet. If kodak makes the best of breed, in certain product lines, I'll continue to use it.

  6. #66
    Les McLean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northern England on the Scottish border
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim68134
    Except for the unique relationship between Michael/Paula and Kodak, I can't think of any other real cooperation with B&W users except with John Sexton among others who did a lot of field testing for TMAX films in the early 80s.

    That is the way most major corporations are today. you have the designers and engineers on one side and the bean counters on the other and neither is interested about input from the end user because what they really need or want does not fit the preconcieved ideas and budgets of the company beauracracy.
    For the past eight years I have worked closely with Ilford field testing their new black and white products and have seen them slide to near bankruptcy. The situation was partly due to the actions of Kodak who very nearly aquired Ilford but pulled out at the last minute and were subsequently guilty of some very unethical actions. Thankfully, Ilford have recovered on the back of huge sales of a cheap digital paper that is selling in supermarkets and multi national computer stores. This has enabled them to continue producing black and white analogue products but clearly the lions share of the research budget is now spent on new digital products, so we do have to thank digtal for saving Ilford.

    I last worked with Ilford a couple of months ago, on a digital presentation, when I asked about the plans for film and paper to be told that there was no intention of reducing the range but equally, there is little chance of new development although they will continue to modify the existing analogue products where necessary. At present their core business is still black and white film and paper but digital is catching up. IMO Ilford have a great loyalty to the photographers who have used their products over the years and will not abandon them.

    Jim's comments about bean counters is just about on the mark, and I speak as a former bean counter who worked for nearly 20 years with international companies. When they decide that the return on a product is too low they will chop it, I'm afraid that it is a fact of business life. Nothing that outside forces say or do will reverse the decision. Whilst I agree with many of the comments on both sides of the very interesting debate my own view is that I will use the products that are available and that I like until they are withdrawn and then find an alternative. Tri X is my favourite film and when it goes it will not take too long to test film that is available.

  7. #67
    Sean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,560
    Blog Entries
    7
    Images
    15
    One huge problem I find in large corporations (and the bain of my work life
    existence) is 'upper management'. I manage corporate email systems and know the systems fairly well. My managers know the name of the software application and that is about it, their managers do not know anything about the application or understand our requests for new hardware or human resources, etc. The end result is people making decisions based on the bottom line. I think big corporations could do better than this and it's sad to witness. So, I'll probably start dealing more with the small fishes and less with the suits.

  8. #68
    Eric Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Calgary AB, Canada
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    4,257
    Images
    73
    Just remember, it's the "suits" that sign the checks.
    www.ericrose.com
    yourbaddog.com

    "civility is not a sign of weakness" JFK

    "The Dude abides" - the Dude

  9. #69
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,290
    Images
    20
    Add to this the fact that marketing and production decisions in recent years seem to be driven more by the desire to increase the stock price than the drive for profits, and it all becomes more bewildering.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Southern Cal
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    485
    Images
    14
    It isn't bewildering at all. A suit gets golden handshakes/parachutes and stock options and gigantic bonuses for doing nothing. He got his job because of family and country club contacts or kissing the right buttocks - rather than any skills or knowledge. So with the golden parachute and stock options he piles up, it is in his best personal interest to drive stock prices up at any cost, cash in and jump ship. It pays a lot better than any normal retirement plan, and he doesn't have to hang around and live with the consequences. Even if the company is driven into the ground he doesn't care, because he already got his and screw everyone else. If you steal a little you're a thief and you go to jail. If you steal a lot you are a "captain of industry" and a "pillar of the community".



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin