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  1. #21
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    This is no big deal, but "beating" on Steve Simmons is getting a tad tiring.
    Some have issues with his publication, I *like* digital as
    little as the next guy, but I think all of us have received the message ... Burned into our flesh, by now.
    Can we, - gently - move on?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  2. #22

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    Steve, appreciate your efforts for the photography community. I picked up a copy of Camera Arts & am pleased at increased coverage of B&W & traditional photography. I may disagree with you on your views re digital - I think its a tool for graphic artists; but I concur with Ed that too frequently you & others who try to serve the photo community seem to incur unnecessary abuse from that same community.
    One suggestion, though. I subscribe to View Camera, and have yet to understand why the use of jerry-rigged password process for access to website. Maybe I'm too use to working with databases - computer programmer by day; but, when MySQL, LDAP & other databases are readily available, a simple subscribers table with "active" & "password" fields seems like a better solution. It could even be updated with info from Robert White in England.
    van Huyck Photo
    "Progress is only a direction, and it's often the wrong direction"

  3. #23
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Yes, the whole password business is a complication that negates the value of the service. I'm not going to hang onto some piece of trash--the plastic wrapper with the label--to retain the password and neither are many others. If you expect people to use a new password with each issue, then stick the label directly to the magazine.

    It would be much more convenient just to be able to log in and set a password that expires with the subscription. If you could somehow encode that information into the label, I would be willing to do it once, but it's ridiculous to have to enter a new password with each issue.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
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  4. #24

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    I was going to just leave this, but now that doug has joined Ed in commenting on 'unnecessary abuse' I feel there is a little imabalance here. I can't see what 'beating' or 'abuse' of steve has happened here.

    I told fintan what his likely option was to get a copy of the magazine, and commented on the poor service to Europeans (since fintan is also based in Europe). This got 'abuse' in return from Steve, so I added an explanation, which got a further unhelpful comment from Steve; in neither comment did Steve make any comment to correct my belief that fintan's only choice was to contact Robert White.

    Fintan asks about digital content, and is told this is 'soooooo silly'. If anyone is being abusive it's not fintan.

    Earlier, photomc asks why something that Steve said would be covered wasn't covered, and is ignored.


    So, where is the abuse, or is it that we customers are supposed to be grateful for whatever crumbs we are given, and aren't allowed to comment when things aren't as we would like? Most vendors will at least appear to listen to their customers complaints, and try to understand the basis for complaints. Sometimes this even leads to improvements in either service or product. (and customer service isn't just telling the customer this is what he's going to get; it involves listening to what the customer wants.)

  5. #25
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by efikim
    I was going to just leave this, but now that doug has joined Ed in commenting on 'unnecessary abuse' I feel there is a little imabalance here. I can't see what 'beating' or 'abuse' of steve has happened here.
    Chill out a little, will you?

    You miss the point. I did not say that comments about the magazine were unwarranted. What I did say was that the point had been made. I get it!! I got it a long time ago!!

    I have assumed that the discussion here would be - and is meant to be - constructive. I am sure that Steve Simmons is listening - and what is being worked out is going to be of value to all concerned. All concerned ... I don't happen to be one of them at the moment - so .... PLEASE take notice of the amount of energy here ... I am being careful ... I would suggest (n.b. SUGGEST!!) that your conversation might be more appropriate and you would -- possibly -- (n.b. NO DOMINEERING COMMANDMENT INVOLVED) be able to communicate more effectively by using private messages.

    Let's turn the sensitivity level down a notch ... and save that vital chunk of our being - sensitivity - for our work.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  6. #26
    bmac's Avatar
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    Easy fellas!
    hi!

  7. #27

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    sigh... OK maybe we try a 30 post a month limit. then we wouldn't waste them bickering...

  8. #28

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    So here are some questions.

    What is the problem with getting a copy of our magazines from Robert White? It is closer to people in the UK and Europe than we are in NM and probably cheaper. We would charge $7US plus about $8US for first class postage. What does White charge?

    When we added the bonus section on the web for subscribers we thought our efforts would be appreciated. We are doing this at our own expense and making the material available free to our subscribers. Instead we are told we don't care about customer service, we don't listen, etc., etc. Perhaps it is true that no good deed goes unpunished. We could drop this extra material and make people happy again I guess.

    We are not computer programmers. With the drop in ad revenue after 9/11 we are not able to hire a programmer to do an integrated database that is tied in to our subscriber info so that when someone's sub expires they lose access to the free sub material automatically. If someone has a suggestion that either does not cost a lot of money or if they are willing to do the work free I will listen and may take them up on the idea. In the meantime if you feel the system is combersome don't use it. You have not lost anything. The magazine is the same size and has the same content as before we started the sub section on the web site so you have not lost anything.

    In the AOL lf discussion group we became plagued by people coming on with such negativity it was unbelievable. I hope that does not happen here. Many of our harshest critics were not even subscribers, just people who wanted us to give away free info to them. When they were unable to get us to do so they became vitrioloc.

    The reaction against digital is also curious. When color came along did we react against it the same way? When silver came along as an addition to platinum, etc. did we deny that it was photography?. CameraArts has increased its coverage of black and white but we are not going to ignore digital. It is here and will stay - in the real world and in our magazine. How many of the companies producing products for the black and white darkroom are supporting the magazines? To charge enough that we would not need advertising is unrealistic. How much are people willing to pay for a suscription?. Photovision tried to ignore digital completly then they started taking digital ads. When PV made an offer to send a sample copy to anyone requesting one very few people took them up and fewer even subscribed as a show of support and the magazine has apparently died.

    CA will continue to cover all aspects of The Art and Craft of Photography in the 21st Century and VC will continue to add to the subscriber section on our web site. You don't need to save the plastic wrapper of either magaszine. Just write the info from the lable on the TOC page of each issue and it will be there for you. If we put the lable on the magazine others would complaign that we are defacing the magazine

    steve simmons

  9. #29
    Joe Lipka's Avatar
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    Wow, we're getting to sound like rec.photo.equipment.large-format.

    And that's not a good thing. Let's just drop this thread. It's boring.
    Two New Projects! Light on China - 07/13/2014

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    250+ posts and still blogging! "Postcards from the Creative Journey"

    http://blog.joelipkaphoto.com/

  10. #30
    bmac's Avatar
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    10-4 Good Buddy
    hi!

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