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  1. #111

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    I like Micheal Smith's approach to the book, the Idea of those whose photo's are chosen pay extra for the book $25 to $100 and a lower rate for those who just want to purchase it for the fine Photographs it will contain. Don't care about a full page bio or statement for each photo but a name and title and short one liner on the same page under the image. Give a 2 or 3 month period to submit work from Subscribers only ( new or old),another month or so for Mr Smith to rummage through them,and announce the accepted images and start the ordering process. With in that period of time it would be able to figure if there is enough money and interest to proceed to the press,if there is not enough money or interest then Mr. Smith is only out his time that he has offered to donate. Don't know of any other high quality book maker to do that.
    There are so many great images that have been posted here in the Gallery it going to be a winner of a Book, and allot of the photographers we have sort of know through our posts here on Apug.

    Mike

  2. #112
    mhanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike c View Post
    I like Micheal Smith's approach to the book, the Idea of those whose photo's are chosen pay extra for the book $25 to $100 and a lower rate for those who just want to purchase it for the fine Photographs it will contain. Don't care about a full page bio or statement for each photo but a name and title and short one liner on the same page under the image. Give a 2 or 3 month period to submit work from Subscribers only ( new or old),another month or so for Mr Smith to rummage through them,and announce the accepted images and start the ordering process. With in that period of time it would be able to figure if there is enough money and interest to proceed to the press,if there is not enough money or interest then Mr. Smith is only out his time that he has offered to donate. Don't know of any other high quality book maker to do that.
    There are so many great images that have been posted here in the Gallery it going to be a winner of a Book, and allot of the photographers we have sort of know through our posts here on Apug.

    Mike
    I agree with this and would participate if it were adopted for the book.

    Personally, I don't think I would have an interest in a type of inclusionary book. If I submit prints which are not selected then I am OK with that - this is after all not my day job.

    I am OK with M Smith editing the book. He is certainly qualified - he has volunteered to do it for FREE - he is set up to have it published in a first class edition - no one else has made a similar offer to the group... etc.

    The idea posted earlier of having two books [the "MAS" book and the "POD" book] is also a good one, consequently, I have the following suggestions for our group:

    1. M Smith go ahead with his version of the book as described by him. I think his mail box will be flooded by those wishing to be considered for such a book. [If APUG collectively decides against a book of this type then I think he should do it on his own as a non-APUG book through his publishing company - I would still participate].

    2. Someone should take up the POD book and collect submissions from all who want to be included. Who ever does this should also be able to set the guidelines and timing for submissions.

    3. All submission should be in the form of a physical print as we are an analogue group.

    ---------------------------

    The only question left is who is the "decider" here in terms of giving the go ahead on any of the many good ideas put forth by all. Personally, I would defer to Sean or the collective group of moderators. Trying to arrive at a consensus through this thread might be frustrating so the "decider" should use it as a well of ideas for the book(s).
    Last edited by mhanc; 07-25-2011 at 07:37 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #113

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    there is also a question about submissions ...
    some work that i have done over the years no longer exists
    as a physical print because the scanning process damages
    the image, and they can't be fixed. ( i just found a drawer full of
    images like this from the last year and they are all dark grey )
    so submission of physical prints would be impossible.


    i think it is good that finally more than 4 people are commenting
    and trying to figure out how to do this book.
    i agree pretty much with everything ian and ole have said ...
    i don't think anyone should be turned away because their work isn't
    "high quality enough" because apug is full of people of all ability levels
    just like in the traveling portfolio projects or the send the camera around the world
    situations, no one is denied access because of their ability level.
    im empty, good luck

  4. #114
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I think you are taking this too personally,my comments are directed to
    the single editor idea, if I had to go this way my vote would be that Sean would be the
    one who choses the work, it is his site , he has put thousands of free , non chargable
    hours into this monster called APUG.
    I have met Sean, he is a pretty level headed dude, he has set up a pretty decent
    community here , with the kind of people that could edit and send the selections off to you
    or any other printer that wants to bid on the project.
    I am sure you could edit a great book, so could I , I would not want to do this, see my earlier
    post about hosting the APUG conference. It took a year and a half out of JD Callow and my life, pretty much worth the effort considering the long time friends I met, but I see this book idea as the same kind of undertaking and you will need time and patience to make it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael A. Smith View Post
    I cannot understand how anyone could possibly think that their solarized prints would "automatically" not be considered if I selected the work. If they are good pictures, of course they would be included. I am not in the least interested in how photographs are made. I am interested in pictures. Good pictures. They can be black and white contact prints or enlargements, color work, transparancies or prints from negatives. solarizations, cyanotypes, daguerrotypes, wet plate, etc., etc., anything at all. In the final analysis, the tools and process used to make photographs matter not a bit. it is the picture that counts. Craft is certainly important, but craft is not the same as process.

    Michael A. Smith

  5. #115
    guitstik's Avatar
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    I don't understand how anyone can take Michael's comments and turn it around that he is taking it personally. The ones who are taking it personally are those that say their prints won't be selected because of this or that. How do know unless you try? And why shouldn't he take it personally? He has offered his time and resources to do this almost free and has been met with hostility.

    As far as Sean judging, he has neither the time nor inclination to do so. It is enough for him just to manage this site. Besides, he has already endorsed Michael and given all confidence that he can do justice to the task at hand.

    I really don't see where competition comes into play. There is a finite amount of space available and I really would like to see a wide variety of subjects and styles in the book and besides let's face it, some of us may not have the best to offer, so what? And what would be the problem with a little competition? My Dad used to tell me that know matter how good I was at something there would always be someone better. I could either whine about it or suck it up, be a man and learn from them to improve myself.

    This all started because I wanted to own prints from some of my favorite artist here and I naively thought that others might feel the same way and a book was a good idea. I was warned from the beginning that I would be met with resistance but I went ahead with it anyways, stupid me.
    Last edited by guitstik; 07-25-2011 at 10:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Thy heart -- thy heart! -- I wake and sigh,
    And sleep to dream till day
    Of the truth that gold can never buy
    Of the bawbles that it may.

    www.silverhalidephotography.com

  6. #116
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I think my posts are being misread, I think its time to move on from this.

  7. #117
    guitstik's Avatar
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    Bob, what I posted was not just in response to you but others who have stated the same. What I said was neither ment as a personal attack but as a question if I offended I apologize. I am jus befuddled at the response I have gotten over what I thought was a simple idea. Of course I would love to have everyone that post to the gallery be involved but that just isn't possible. The idea of having a panel decide doesnt seem plausible either as we cannot seem to get a general consensus among just a few now. I may be to close to this but the idea of having one qualified person deciding what should and should not go into the book seems the best so far. It would not be an enviable task as we have found so far. Not everyone would make the cut but that would not indicate their work is substandard but just that the curator had a tough job in deciding. That should not deter anyone from submitting, quite the contrary, they should just to have a hand in the creation of a book even if not chosen.

    There is a vast wealth of talent here and I would like to have the widest cross section of talent as possible but as I have stated numerously, how do you know if you will not be in the book if you do not try.
    Thy heart -- thy heart! -- I wake and sigh,
    And sleep to dream till day
    Of the truth that gold can never buy
    Of the bawbles that it may.

    www.silverhalidephotography.com

  8. #118
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    I think my posts are being misread, I think its time to move on from this.
    I agree Bob.

    There's a need to go back to the beginning without any preconcieved plans involving juried selection by one person, and with all publishing options open.

    There's also a need for others who command wide spread support to come forward and oversee the whole project.

    Ian
    Last edited by Ian Grant; 07-25-2011 at 11:28 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: add

  9. #119
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Different strokes for different folks. Some empathy would be nice here.

    Definition of empathy according to Merriam-Webster:
    the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

    Or, the every day meaning: The ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a while and at least try to see things from their perspective.

    Do you realize that some people, like me, are the kinds of individuals that read consumer reports before we make purchases? I take time to study the alternatives before I decide to invest. There are a few people like that other than me, otherwise those publications would have a difficult time surviving.

    I have a problem with feeling like I'm being rushed into participation, and I don't ever like to make rushed decisions. I need some time to contemplate alternatives, and I bet I'm not the only one. It's not that I don't like Lodima Press. In fact I know it's excellent, because I've seen Michael Smith's books first hand, and Paula Chamlee's as well. They are excellent!
    I wouldn't even mind submitting a scan via email for contemplation. But for me that would be like sending a 'Request For Quote' to one of several vendors to shop for the best solution. I'm in the market for a new car, for example. So I have, currently, email discussions and phone conversations with eleven different car dealerships in the Twin Cities, just so I can see what my options are before I go ahead.

    Please don't rush ahead with this so much. Is it vitally important for this project to be fast to be successful? Does it have to happen NOW? And if the answer to that question is 'yes', then please explain why.

    Thanks,

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #120
    guitstik's Avatar
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    Ian, are you saying that Sean doesn't have respect of the community? He has already stated that he has all confidence in Michael with Lodima press involvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Michael, thanks for taking the time to write the above. I have several Lodima books, they are all elegant and beautifully printed to say the least. I am confident this project would be in good hands if Lodima was involved. Since this is such a huge undertaking it is easy for me to expect a publisher to maintain a high degree of control which is fair enough in my opinion. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered and since the community will be involved I would rather they mostly work these questions out with you. They will be the customer. I suppose the sooner we can determine how many would pre-order the book the sooner we can determine if the project is viable. I am also seeing this as something that could possibly coincide with APUG's 10yr anniversary on Sept. 2012. I'm sure we'll be in touch if the community wishes to move forward.

    Thanks again,
    Sean
    We can never go back to the beginning after we have been where we have been. Trying to start over from scratch is pert near impossible after all that has been said here. Who would you suggest head up another project? Why are you so vehement about Michael curating this? from what I have seen he is well qualified and well spoken for. I don't understand.
    Thy heart -- thy heart! -- I wake and sigh,
    And sleep to dream till day
    Of the truth that gold can never buy
    Of the bawbles that it may.

    www.silverhalidephotography.com



 

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