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  1. #151

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    Sean, to put some perspective on the 50,000 accounts here, how many have even looked at the site in the last 3-6 months? We have 100,000 customers on our books at work, but only 20,000 are active.

  2. #152
    guitstik's Avatar
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    I am always logged on so I never have to log back in, that and the fact I only have access through my iPhone using safari, I usually go straight to "my posts". Where would be the best place to put up a message for others to see and be informed of what is taking place? I wouldn't know where to begin in sending out a mass PM to all active members. How many folks have APUG on face book? I don't because I rarely ever use it. John suggested something on groups but I didn't quite understand but then again I am a ludite.
    Thy heart -- thy heart! -- I wake and sigh,
    And sleep to dream till day
    Of the truth that gold can never buy
    Of the bawbles that it may.

    www.silverhalidephotography.com

  3. #153

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    Apparently the APUG elite are already engaged in private conversations on this book project. I've lost interest.

    Best of luck on the book guitstik.

    Regards
    Michael

  4. #154

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    I'm sure OP has started this project thinking this will be fun, good for members, and beneficial to APUG. I'm so sad that it has turned so political and battles between some individual members. I will just stand-back and see what happens in the end.

    As my last comment - let's not forget this is supposed to be a hobby that we pursue for enjoyment....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  5. #155
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    I think one of my concerns is that we could go down a very expensive print route without total openess, I've been using printers since the 70's for a variety of reasons up to 4 colour litho and have never had a problem getting good ball park print costs. So I'm extremely surprised we can't be given an idea of costings.

    It appears we must look elsewhere for these figures from alternative publishers. I can get figures from a highly reputable UK publisher of Photographic books but ideally someone should approach a couple of US publishers, suggestions welcome but perhaps Bill Schwab is one person to ask..

    We need to remember the last fiasco where APUG was badly let down by View Cameramagazine over Photo3 and retain a better degree of conrol over this project. This is why I feel we need a small group liasing with any publisher, perhaps figures wouldn't need to be made availble to every one.

    Ian
    Last edited by Ian Grant; 07-26-2011 at 11:53 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #156

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    This is part of an answer to a PM I received.

    Isn't quality a desired goal? Throughout my career, I have sacrificed greatly for quality. I do not understand how anyone could want to go for a lesser quality book as a first option. If the greater quality is not feasible because of cost, then the lesser quality would be the only option. But why start there? I don't get it. What am I missing?

    Now, a quote? What would someone be quoting? Page size? Number of pages? Size of edition? Pre-press work required? Send me certain answers to that and I will get a quote, or would you prefer that I just make them up.

    Printers in the USA or the UK. Surely you are dreaming if you want to keep costs down from a quality printer. There are lots of printers that will happily take the job at reasonable cost, but quality from those printers. Forget it.

    Michael A. Smith

  7. #157
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Michael your answers show clearly that what I've been saying all along that not enough thought has gone into the project yet is true and that a small steering group should liase with you, other publishers and also look into the Blurb costs - all aspects of the project.

    I'm well aware that page size, number of pages, size of edition etc have been overlooked so far, and I'm also well aware that UK & US publishers get their printing done in a variety of locations.

    I'm not saying taht we shouldn't necessarily aim to go for the highest quality rather that all the options need costing out comparatively and put before all the APUG contributors, There are after all other high quality publishers who may or may not be cvheaper.

    Ian

  8. #158
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    Hello All,

    Honored to get a nod on this from Ian and without having read completely through the thread, I hope I don't step on anyone's toes by commenting. Personally, I have too much in the works right now to get involved, but I get the gist of the discussion and would simply like to comment on the logistics of putting something together like this in hopes it may be of some help.

    There is a lot of talent on APUG with many deserving individuals having contributed to the galleries over the years (I'm publishing some of them myself!) and a properly done book, either POD or offset would be a fine keepsake and promotional piece for all involved. However, with no disrespect to anyone potentially involved, it is very unlikely that such a book would have much commercial value and it is therefore unlikely that any publisher is going to want to gamble money on such a project.

    With regard to an offset project, this means that unless you have money already in hand from many who commit to purchase, the revenue generated by its sale cannot be counted upon in financing it into reality. A quote mentioned here is, in my opinion, terribly low considering the scope of this project, especially done on US shores. This will mean that if you do in fact plan to do an offset project, each person published will have to pay a fairly large sum to be a part. To be reckless, I will say anything between 500.00 and 1500.00, even more could be expected from each published photographer depending upon how many are published and number of images each. Think "Black Book" and you'll get an idea. Although done in a "fine art" format, in effect, you'll be buying an "ad" space in the book to promote your work. Consider also that the fee to be involved will also have to cover the work of a small core chosen to produce such a book. This as I'm sure you all understand is no small undertaking and those responsible for pulling it together should be paid. Doing it with a volunteer force would be a disaster in my opinion.

    What I would suggest is that you'll be much better off charging a nominal fee per person included to produce a POD book. Enough that it would collectively generate enough money to pay the person elected to put this all together as well as a designer. This way, once the book is designed and proofed, those interested in buying could simply order and enjoy. It won't be the nice, cloth covered and case bound fine art book some of you dream of, but it will be a book you can be proud of taking part in no matter.

    Again, I hope this helps and I wish you all luck in getting this together!

  9. #159
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Thanks Bill that's one of the most thoughtful and meaningful replies to the two threads about this project. It put's into perspective the concerns many of us have from someone respected and intimately involved in all aspects of photography.

    Others should read your reply very carefully before we embark on making rash decisions.

    Ian

  10. #160
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    Bill,

    Thank you for touching base with us and giving your insight on our little project. I respect your input as you were one of two names given to me by Sean as a possible publisher for this book. I realize that your time is taken up with all of the projects you have going on.

    As far as being commercially viable, I had never envisioned it nor did I have any notion of it being so. Rather, I wanted a book that would be for the APUG community as a whole and nothing more. Michael at Lodima Press from the beginning, after my first contact with him, had talked of putting the photographers photo/bio and contact information on the facing page to that of their photograph in the hopes that it may generate some interest for the artists.

    Thankfully, the cost to the contributors as quoted by Michael himself has been considerably lower than that you have projected. The reason being is that he has graciously offered his services gratis which helps to keep the cost down.

    Now that we have heard from you, I hope that you keep track of the progress and chime in as your schedule allows.
    Thy heart -- thy heart! -- I wake and sigh,
    And sleep to dream till day
    Of the truth that gold can never buy
    Of the bawbles that it may.

    www.silverhalidephotography.com



 

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