I don't have a problem taking his offer for the printing seriously provided all the cards are put on the table in an open and honest manner. No hidden agendas and with a cooperative approach.
Originally Posted by Diapositivo
However we need some firmer ideas of numbers of contributors, potential sales and actual unit costs, including packaging and shipping which have not been mentioned before- it's a very International forum so packaging & shipping from the US could add significantly to the price.
There's a lack of realism from some that's astonishing, and Bill Schwab has highlights this repeatedly now.
Dewi Lewis, formerly of Cornerhouse Publishing in the UK wrote an excellent book on publishing Photographic books, he included actual examples of different printing techniques. This is well worth reading, I'm not 100% sure if I brought my copy back from Turkey, very probably because I'm working on a publication at the moment. Paul Graham also wrote an excellent article in "Camera" magazineabout self publishing his book "A1 - The Great North Road", I have the magazine still and can lay my hands on it.
I've not had time to contact Dewi Lewis to ask advice about this APUG project but he's just published two major publications of retrospective images by John Blakemore & Paul Hill.
The Paul Graham article is still 28 years later a blue print for self publishing and his book was a landmark publication. The Dewi Lewis book goes quite a few stages further.
I'll dig them out tomorrow, and give the publishers details. Both are still in copyright so can't be put online. I'll pass the Paul Graham article on to Joel.
Last edited by Ian Grant; 07-27-2011 at 04:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.
Reason: add more info
The problem with Michael A Smith and his approach, was he wouldn't lay ANYTHING on the table in relation to what one would expect as a cost. There were some very rubbery figures put down quite a few pages ago, but not much more. To me it seemed too much like 'you know you want it, lets worry about the costs later'.
I did have a thought, but it might be totally impossible, out of reach, etc,etc. The guys who published B&W magazine used to run ad's in the magazine about 'writing photo books'. Now, I haven't bought a B&W magazine for a long time, so I don't know if they still do it, but if they did, could this be a possible avenue? It might require certain liberties to be taken away, but then again, this might actually get a book published and also promoted for general sale. This is just an idea, nothing more and as I suggested, it could be nothing more then a pipe dream.
Its can of hard to figure cost for Micheal when he does not know how many copies to print,the more copy's the less expensive the cost per book. This was explained in one of his earliest posts.
If we do the first 4 steps that Sean suggested we would have numbers then could compare the different printing options with a Apug site wide vote.
Okay. I have requested two specific quotes. based on 100 pictures, printed on facing pages and softbound. One quote as a 16-page signature. One quote as a 12-page signature.
And, by the way, I am in the process of writing a book about publishing photograph books. With specific details that anyone can follow. The recently published book about publishing a photography book does not tell anyone how to make one. All it does, more or less, is tell you where the resources are for you to hire so you can have one made. Example: I think it says that you need to sequence your photographs. It says nothing about the kinds of things that must be considered when you do so.
Michael A. Smith
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Hi - I know next to nothing about book publishing, what do the above terms mean?
Originally Posted by Michael A. Smith
To give you a proper explanation would take too long. But look at a fine book from the top edge. See all those wrapped pages? Each one is a signature--one sheet of paper that was folded (and sewn).
96-page book would be 6-16-page signatures (8 pages each side)
96 page book would be 8-12-page signatures (6 pages each side)
Sheet size is 28x40. 12 page signature is more expensive. More paper. More press time.
Hope that helps.
Michael A. Smith
Ahhh thanks that does make sense
I've found the Dewi Lewis boo this morning (UK time) it was published in 1992, the magazine with the Paul Graham article on Self Publishing was on the shelf below, so both are to hand now.
Publishing Photography - a practical guide. Dewi Lewis and Alan Ward, Cornerhouse Publishing, Manchester, UK, 1992 ISBN 0 948797 81 9
This book has a section on editing and sequencing, is concsie and well written, it was funded by the UK Arts Council, there are referances for further reading. In the UK there are/have been many other books and shorter pamplets for photographers and other artists published by Artist Newsletter (AN), some of these are aimed specifically at photographers but they also cover topics like editing & swequencing, getting published including self publishing.
Getting a book published is a very logical sequence of steps, none difficult, the critical part is ensuring you use the most appropriate printing company and that they deliver the quality that you desire within your budget.
In our case one of the major issues is going to betting a consistency in the quality of the prints and scans submitted, there have been offers for scanning and once there's a consensus on the pook/print size then some parameters can be laid down.
Who ever we work with to get this book printed costs can be reduced by getting as much done ourselves, selection, scanning, sequencing, editing and proofing text ect and with full cooperation of all including the publishers.
It's worth noting that companies like Blurb have come a long way in recent years and the number of Photography based books they print is colossal. When they started people did have problems with muddy reproduction and other issues but that has been put behind them as they've deliberate improved thweir facilities to cater for the Photography market. There are also higher quality POD publishers, not all International and they need to be looked at as well.
Recent issues of the BJP and also B&W magazine (UK) have had reviews on POD publishers and there's an article I saved on Self Publishing a POD from the BJP, and a more recent one in B&W.
Just a quick note: I've updated the survey so that the results will appear after you have completed the survey (each question is its own page). We're up to 78 respondants now, a day and a half in.
My favorite thing is to go where I've never been. D. Arbus