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  1. #251
    coigach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    That's unfortunate...



    Ken
    I agree. So much for a public discussion.

    Tongue-in-cheek, I'm reminded a little of Orwell's 'Animal Farm':

    "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"

  2. #252
    guitstik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coigach View Post
    I agree. So much for a public discussion.

    Tongue-in-cheek, I'm reminded a little of Orwell's 'Animal Farm':

    "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"
    We have had an open debate on this for some time now and have compiled a list of ideas and suggestions but now is the time for action would you like to lead?
    Thy heart -- thy heart! -- I wake and sigh,
    And sleep to dream till day
    Of the truth that gold can never buy
    Of the bawbles that it may.

    www.silverhalidephotography.com

  3. #253
    coigach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitstik View Post
    We have had an open debate on this for some time now and have compiled a list of ideas and suggestions but now is the time for action would you like to lead?
    I've not been asked into the inner circle of 'behind the scenes' discussions, so am not in a position to lead

    I've followed the thread, contributed a few times, and would love to see a book - there is a lot of great work on APUG from photographers I admire and respect.

    What I was trying to say - hopefully good-naturedly - was that from where I sit there does appear to be an 'us and them' discussion with longer-time members having more influence. The 'behind the scenes discussions' seem to bear this out. What happened to the public debate? Surely that debate is not over, is it?
    Last edited by coigach; 08-04-2011 at 01:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #254
    bill spears's Avatar
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    I think Gavin, the thread had run it's course. There were only a handful of people contributing to it, you and myself including. It appears that we wont hear from Lodima press who were going to find some quotes ??
    If something is happening behind the scenes I'd say lets wait and see what comes, if anything, then people can decide whether they want to contribute to a book or not.
    Digital photography is like virtual sex........ you never actually touch the real thing..... or get your hands dirty

  5. #255
    coigach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill spears View Post
    I think Gavin, the thread had run it's course. There were only a handful of people contributing to it, you and myself including. It appears that we wont hear from Lodima press who were going to find some quotes ??
    If something is happening behind the scenes I'd say lets wait and see what comes, if anything, then people can decide whether they want to contribute to a book or not.
    Sounds fair to me!

  6. #256
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    I think the reason the response has slacked off is that there were quite a few folks initially interested when it was a pie-in-the-sky idea - "Oooh, let's make a book!". When folks who have experience with doing it started pointing out some of the practical considerations, those unwilling to invest sweat equity started bailing.
    Quote Originally Posted by bill spears View Post
    I think Gavin, the thread had run it's course. There were only a handful of people contributing to it, you and myself including.
    Don't discount those who stopped contributing to this discussion as now "being-out" or "bailed-out". I am one of them, but would happily contribute my submissions if it ever came to that point.

    However, personally, I just don't see the sense of contributing to this discussion of "how-it-needs-to-be-done". As others have noted, these discussions can run wild and long...

    I'll just wait for any possible outcome and conform to that. Additionally, with a form of RSI, I am in no position to have an active involvement in the production process of the book, which will undoubtedly be a lot of work however it ever is produced...

    Others will have other reasons to avoid this discussion, but may be willing too to participate once it gets "real"...
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  7. #257
    hoffy's Avatar
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    I'm sitting back and watching as well

  8. #258
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Marco-

    your contributions of images would be more than welcome. For that matter, EVERYONE's image submissions will be welcome. Getting this off the ground and making it actually happen really requires a small group of people to make a bunch of executive decisions, be they better or worse, because otherwise nothing ever gets decided and the extra chefs are there just to criticize the ingredients the others put in the soup without even chopping some carrots. Once things get rolling, there will be plenty of carrot-chopping for people if they want to take some of that on and help with the book (volunteer scanning services, for example). We on the steering committee will definitely keep everyone in the loop as things develop (pun intended). We're still figuring out a lot of stuff like what press to use, do we get an ISBN number for the book, how many pages, etc etc etc. All the dirty little details that will never be agreed upon with an advisory committee of 100. Or 20. I'm absolutely confident we will make plenty of mistakes along the way, and we'll get lots of stuff right too, and that no matter what we do, there will be people who will be unhappy with what we get right and people who will love what we think we screwed up. But we'll get it done, and it will be out there.

  9. #259

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    I have not been included in any "behind the scenes" conversations or efforts. I appear to be working on a separate track from all of the others.

    Here are the quotes I received for an APUG book and the specs for which asked for quotes.

    A. 128 page book 9 5/8" x 11 5/8" (16-page signature)
    128 pages half printed as black and white, half in four color.
    Paperback.
    Delivered and custom cleared in New York.
    500 copies: $11,440
    1,000 copies $12,995

    B. 120 page book 12 ½" x 12"
    120 pages half printed as black and white, half in four color.
    Paperback.
    Delivered and custom cleared in New York.
    500 copies: $12,350
    1,000 copies $14,780

    To these figures add approximately $1,000 for design. And $5,000 for my time is at my half-rate. This figure is exclusive of my donated time to look at and select the entries. If others on APUG can do much of what is required, the $5,000 figure could get as low as $2,000, and possibly less.

    The totals for quote A 500 copies are between $14,440 and $17, 440.
    The totals for quote A 1,000 copies are between $15,995 and $18,995.

    The totals for quote B 500 copies are between $15,350 and $18,350
    The totals for quote A 1,000 copies are between $17,780 and $20,780.

    Scans: Everyone would be responsible for their own scans. If they cannot do it themselves or get it done, someone at APUG could volunteer, or we can do it here, for which there will be a charge at market rates. Scan specifications would be announced.

    Guarantee that the book would be a beautiful offset book. One photograph per page. Photographs on facing pages.

    Although in previous posts to this thread I set out my concept for the book, I am always open to suggestions.

    Selection criteria would be based on quality. It does not matter to me if a photograph is made with a Holga or is an 8x10 contact print, or whether it is in black and white or color or some alternative process. It just has to be a good picture.

    For $20 approximately, 500 or 1,000 APUG members could own a beautiful book. If 500 or 1,000 members are not forthcoming and willing to pre-pay (the only way the money will get raised is by accepting pre-publication orders), then those whose photographs are selected for inclusion could split the shortfall between them. Pre-paid orders could be sent to APUG, not to me.

    It is abundantly clear that the person who estimated $40,000 to $50,000 for an APUG book was way off base. I cannot image his motive for being so irresponsible.

    Michael A. Smith

  10. #260
    PhotoBob's Avatar
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    Are you now actively looking for submissions?
    I am definitely interested.
    Last edited by PhotoBob; 08-11-2011 at 11:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Follow the Light John 8:12
    ~~~PhotoBob



 

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