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  1. #271
    Ian David's Avatar
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    What a remarkable thread. Speaking of Joel/guitstik, is he still actively involved in this idea? Just curious... I have lost track of who is playing for which team.

    Ian

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Michael as far as we are concerned Sean who runs APUG ruled you out a few weeks ago back in past #174, there was a majority in the poll against you/an individual being the selector.

    What's your problem with that ?

    You don't need to sell yourself, we can make our own judgements.



    The major suggestion has been that you have nothing what so ever to do with the selection, and that hasn't changed.

    Ian
    I agree. And I have the feeling that some think this project is more about them than APUG. Begone to cultivate your own sparkling legacy then. Charge to judge my photographs? LOL Get a clue. Democracy might be a useful concept to apply.

    Who ever runs this project should be truly humbled by the opportunity to work to serve the people who contribute their amazing work that appears on APUG. Work which is not always mere homage to Adams.

    I do hope that Sean will not reward any self-serving propositions with the APUG logo.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  3. #273
    mooseontheloose's Avatar
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    Just for a little perspective...

    I've gone through all 28 pages of this thread and here are some stats:

    9165 views

    272 posts

    58 contributors:

    -Of the 58 contributors, the most prolific (that's 8 of us (13.7%), including me) which I count at 10 or more posts each, have made 147 posts, or 54% of all postings to this thread.

    -25 contributors (43%) have only made one post.

    -I realize that not everyone who is interested in the book has contributed to this thread (or to the survey, which had 106 completed responses), but the numbers are still very low. Are 500-1000 people really going to commit to buy the book?

    Other thoughts based on the forum thread and the survey results:

    -A few people have indicated that they want someone outside of APUG to take over this project.
    -A few other people have indicated that they prefer that this be handled by a group of people, either within or without APUG
    -Many people have objected to one person taking over this project.
    -Some people are assuming the worst of everyone, and of this project, and I really don't know why.

    -Some people have taken offense at a small group of people (and yes, I am one of them) trying to sift through all of the requests to make something that is APUG-oriented and acceptable to most of the membership. To be clear, not one of us has gone behind anyone's back. I think we were just people who somehow got accidentally caught up with wanting to help create a successful APUG project and went forward with it. I do apologize for any offence this has caused, especially if my contributing to it makes people uncomfortable.

    We are doing are best to finalize what we think would be acceptable selection criteria, publisher, selection committee (for the images), timelines, etc. We have been working on this for the past two weeks and are nearly there.
    Rachelle

    My favorite thing is to go where I've never been. D. Arbus

  4. #274
    hoffy's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to what you guys have worked out Rachelle.

  5. #275

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    To keithwms: Please read more carefully. There is no charge to look at your photographs. None whatsoever. I cannot imagine how you read that into what I wrote. To look at and select photographs is purely my donated time.

    Michael A. Smith

  6. #276
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael A. Smith View Post
    To keithwms: Please read more carefully. There is no charge to look at your photographs. None whatsoever. I cannot imagine how you read that into what I wrote. To look at and select photographs is purely my donated time.

    Michael A. Smith
    Not to derail this thread, but... you went to some length to explain what you would charge to furnish critique. Okay, so let's suppose that you won't charge to critique contributions to this book. Then why did you add all that about charging (a lot) to critique photographs for a few minutes? Sounds an awful lot like an advertisement to me. That is what probably rubs people (like me) the wrong way.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  7. #277
    Ian David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooseontheloose View Post
    Some people have taken offense at a small group of people (and yes, I am one of them) trying to sift through all of the requests to make something that is APUG-oriented and acceptable to most of the membership. To be clear, not one of us has gone behind anyone's back. I think we were just people who somehow got accidentally caught up with wanting to help create a successful APUG project and went forward with it. I do apologize for any offence this has caused, especially if my contributing to it makes people uncomfortable.

    We are doing are best to finalize what we think would be acceptable selection criteria, publisher, selection committee (for the images), timelines, etc. We have been working on this for the past two weeks and are nearly there.
    Thanks for the info Rachelle.

    Are you able please to let the wider APUG membership know who is on your steering committee?

    Ian

  8. #278
    bill spears's Avatar
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    Rachelle makes a very valid point in her last post (#278)

    $20,000 top estimate from Lodima for 1000 books sounds like a no brainer. I'd guess 2000 books could be printed for only a few dollars more.... making the unit cost even lower. Have you read the survey results though Michael....... there are only just over 100 replies ?

    Where IS Guitstik ?
    Digital photography is like virtual sex........ you never actually touch the real thing..... or get your hands dirty

  9. #279

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    To keithwms re: charge for critique: As I wrote, this would be something optional after the photographs for the book was selected and put together.

    Why I put it in there is that it occurred to me that some people might want some serious feedback. Giving a serious critique is no small thing. It requires a lot of effort. Paula and I teach occasional weekend Vision and Technique Workshops and giving a deep and serious helpful critique is a large part of it. We have been told repeatedly that in all of the other workshops that people had taken that they had never had anyone give them such a useful critique. So I thought that it would be a nice thing to offer if someone were interested--to offer it as a service--for less than 1/10 of our workshop fees. Of course, it is not a full workshop, but I know it would be valuable to anyone who was interested. If no one were interested, that would be fine, as I have too much to do as it is. Unfortunately, because of my limited time and the effort required, I cannot offer to give a serious critique for nothing.

    We have found, in our workshops, that if people put up 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 photographs for us to critique and we ask them to tell us which they think are the best, and why, it is extremely rare that anyone picks the right ones. And their reasons for their selections usually have nothing to do with the photograph, but with some combination of their experience of making the photograph and what it means to them. In other words, they are not looking at their photographs the way a curator would look at them--look at them objectively without knowing (or caring), how or why they were made (although the "why" is usually evident from the photograph itself).

    Thanks for explaining more precisely what you were objecting to and for giving me the opportunity to make clear what I was offering. Your first response to my long posting implied that I was charging for my time to select the photographs for the book, which I most definitely am not doing.

    Michael A. Smith

  10. #280

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    thanks rachelle !

    i am also looking forward to what you all come up with ..


    - john



 

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