Hand held VS in camera meters.

[Bill Burk]

So; Nikon FE=F3HP=F4s=FE=Hassy PME5.

Take the same reading with my handheld meters I read exactly 1 stop high.

Sorry I can't visualize which direction you mean when you say 1 stop high.

Maybe you can give a specific scenario tell us the scene, EI, Shutter and f/stop recommended by Camera, and Light meter.

If you have a light meter that does Incident/spot/reflected, what are the recommended settings on all modes.

And how are you positioning/lighting the gray card?

[Paul Goutiere]

Sorry I can't visualize which direction you mean when you say 1 stop high.

Maybe you can give a specific scenario tell us the scene, EI, Shutter and f/stop recommended by Camera, and Light meter.

If you have a light meter that does Incident/spot/reflected, what are the recommended settings on all modes.

And how are you positioning/lighting the gray card?

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the response.

-I had positioned my grey card against the back outside wall on our deck in the open shade.

-I set up my cameras on a tripod one at a time. ( OK not very scientific but the lighting was consistent. )

-The built in meters in my F4s, F3, Hassy PME5 etc. all read identically to one another when pointed at my 18% grey card. I include only the grey card in the frame.
(The point I'm trying to impart here will be that my camera meters are likely as accurate as they agree with one another.)

-Each time I took a reading with a camera I also took a reading with a hand held meter, usually my Gossen Digisix. (I have confirmed the accuracy of this meter with a
friends meters as well as others I own.)

-The reading from my handheld meter is consistently higher, by 1 stop, to the readings I get from the meters in my cameras.

My feeling is the reading from the same grey card should be identical for my handheld or camera meters. But then....I don't know!

[cliveh]

Camera meters are reading through the lens, hand held meters are not.

[Bill Burk]

-The reading from my handheld meter is consistently higher, by 1 stop, to the readings I get from the meters in my cameras.

Sorry still can't get the mental grip. You mean the handheld meter indicates there is more light, so instead of f/11 it recommends f/16?

[Sirius Glass]

My in-camera meters, Nikon N75, Nikon F100, Hasselblad 503 CX with the 45º PME, are all spot on and agree with my Gossen Luna-Lux Pro incident and reflected, all the time. What would you classify using my Nikon F100 as a spot meter for my Hasselblads, 4"x5" Pacemaker Speed Graphic, and 4"x5" Graflex Model D, is that hand held or in camera, which it technically is, for large SBR?

I really suspect that your problem is rather a calibration problem or an Operated Assisted Failure mode, of which the later makes an interesting acronym.

[Chan Tran]

When I do a reading with the camera for comparison, I either use a gray card or a flat object of uniform color and it's evenly illuminated. I made sure that the gray card fills the frame of the camera and the camera doesn't cast shadow on the card. With a meter like the Minolta Flashmeter III in reflected mode it's difficult to make sure that the card fills its entire view but to compare I have to make sure of that. Doing so my Nikon F5, F3HP, FM, Minolta Flashmeter III, Flashmeter VI, Spotmeter M all read within 1/3 stop. The meters are reading closer to each other than that 1/10 stop.

[Paul Goutiere]

When I do a reading with the camera for comparison, I either use a gray card or a flat object of uniform color and it's evenly illuminated. I made sure that the gray card fills the frame of the camera and the camera doesn't cast shadow on the card. With a meter like the Minolta Flashmeter III in reflected mode it's difficult to make sure that the card fills its entire view but to compare I have to make sure of that. Doing so my Nikon F5, F3HP, FM, Minolta Flashmeter III, Flashmeter VI, Spotmeter M all read within 1/3 stop. The meters are reading closer to each other than that 1/10 stop.

I actually did this, but I see there is something afoot that I haven't taken into consideration when comparing camera meters to hand held meters.

[bdial]

If you get consistantly good exposures metering with the Gossen and the various cameras, then there may be a problem somewhere in your technique, although what you describe seems ok.
With the Gossen, how close are you to the grey card? If I were doing that test I'd be no more than 3 or 4 inches, FWIW.
What happens if you make a reflected reading with the Gossen, then rotate 180 and make a reading with the incident dome? The two should match.
Also, with the cameras, are you focusing on the card or working with the lenses set to infinity? Setting them to infinity would be preferable.
Finally, if you scan around metering various portions of the card, do you get any difference in the readings with any one of the meters? I.E. are you getting any bright areas of light on the card that may not be easily visible?

[Chan Tran]

I understand what Paul is concerned about. It's not so much of getting bad exposure but why do the cameras meter agree with each other and the hand held agree with each other but cameras and meters are different by 1 stop which is a significant amount. Yes I certainly think there is something wrong with your comparison but I don't know what.

[Paul Goutiere]

If you get consistantly good exposures metering with the Gossen and the various cameras, then there may be a problem somewhere in your technique, although what you describe seems ok.
With the Gossen, how close are you to the grey card? If I were doing that test I'd be no more than 3 or 4 inches, FWIW.

Yes, about 3 or 4 inches but the reading stays consistent to about 12 inches.

What happens if you make a reflected reading with the Gossen, then rotate 180 and make a reading with the incident dome? The two should match.

Spot on.

Also, with the cameras, are you focusing on the card or working with the lenses set to infinity? Setting them to infinity would be preferable.

Focused on the card, more or less.

Finally, if you scan around metering various portions of the card, do you get any difference in the readings with any one of the meters? I.E. are you getting any bright areas of light on the card that may not be easily visible?

It appears very flat from edge to edge.

I'm becoming just a little suspicious of my meters, even though my little Gossen Digisix is new, I'll compare it again to a friends Minolta, perhaps send some stuff out for a check up.