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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    If they are looked at without the clutter of all the similar photography done since, to me they are astonishing in their artistry and creativity.
    Looking at his work without thinking about all the copycats will only become more difficult, and this is the biggest problem with photography as lasting original art. The value of great original photography is forgotten much quicker than original paintings. In twenty years, I think William Eggleston will be the new Ansel Adams and the biggest insults when presenting work will be "he's trying to be Eggleston", "nostalgic trash - reminds me of Eggleston", "seeing democratically? You're living in the past maaan".

    For me, AA's lasting contribution is his plea for technical competence - which has now become child's play in photography and thus, has no value in and of itself. Contrast is an intuitive decision, just like it is when setting up a new television, there's nothing theoretical about it. To go to the AA level with traditional photographic craft today is like driving a steam engine to work in the rush hour - you'll annoy most people and get a few laughs and curious looks from others. But critically, your work won't be remembered.

  2. #42
    Rafal Lukawiecki's Avatar
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    That makes me somehow sad, batwister...
    Rafal Lukawiecki
    See rafal.net | Read rafal.net/articles

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    Blakemore is a zone system advocate. He made creative, practical sense of it with his teaching. Most people are too rigid about contrast, as if it's an absolute truth. Which is fair enough - if you make strong pictures this way to back it up. But those who are in a mental straitjacket tend to be in a creative one too.

    The HDR comment. I didn't know whether to leave that alone. Bad experience? Tip of the day: stop looking at HDR pix and you'll stop seeing it in everything you look at.

    It's like those 9/11 obsessives that scream controversy when they see anything in a pair. Tip: stop watching 9/11 videos.
    I didn't try to slog off the shot (I commented on the tonality, not the subject matter).
    The HDR reference was that it looks unnatural (to me).

    And, I do create a lot of HDR-images with my d1g1 equipment, so I have no real issue with that per-se, it was just a way of describing how I experience that particular photo.

    As for the zone-system, I think it's the most excellent tool we have for control, -control- , over the process, but blown highlights and blocked shadows are all a part of the natural world (even to our own astounding eyes).
    Last edited by Helinophoto; 11-28-2012 at 12:41 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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    "Nice picture, you must have an amazing camera."
    Visit my photography blog at: http://helino-photo.blogspot.com

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafal Lukawiecki View Post
    That makes me somehow sad, batwister...
    I think it's really sad too. I'll be going to see the Ansel Adams show in London at some point and I'm sure I'll be bowled over. But when I leave the gallery, it's straight back to the ephemeral truth of the world we live in.

  5. #45

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    I still try to go to AA's levels and beyond with traditional photographic craft, but it is to satisfy my own needs - to make the prints I see in my mind. They are difficult and require lots of technique/work but what choice do I have, unless I want to make prints I'm not personally happy with? In my case it would make no sense. It is a hobby. My work will not be remembered critically or otherwise.

    But I hear what batwister is saying. And in the end even if I hang my prints in a gallery the truth is nobody cares about print quality, shadow detail, highlight detail, sharpness, grain etc., at least on a conscious level. Maybe a few other photographers might notice, or maybe you can impress a few people at a workshop, but aside from that nobody cares.

  6. #46
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    Definitely

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Aspen View Post
    And Salgado!
    The empty shadows does give a feeling of uncertainty and bleakness with some of his shots.
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang

  7. #47
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    But I hear what batwister is saying. And in the end even if I hang my prints in a gallery the truth is nobody cares about print quality, shadow detail, highlight detail, sharpness, grain etc., at least on a conscious level. Maybe a few other photographers might notice, or maybe you can impress a few people at a workshop, but aside from that nobody cares.
    I agree but I do think people see the whole.

    If we have sweated the details it shows.

    Recently I printed a shot of my dog at 11x14 for myself, taken on 4x5 HP5, the detail in his face and eyes is incredible and the tones are so smooth; the people I show it to know its different, they may not know why, but they do know its special.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  8. #48

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    I hope you're right, Mark. And I agree sometimes although the viewer might not be consciously aware of the details, the details may in fact be doing something on a different level and contributing to the viewer's "total" perception.

  9. #49

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    Instead of the draw of traditional photography being something rooted in the sensibilities of the past, I just wish, for the life of me, we could win people over for its relevance and timeliness. Wouldn't that be great? Scrapping the word 'traditional' altogether might be a start! There's definitely a place for more traditional modes of practice (aesthetically speaking), some of which I like and own books of, but I feel that some classical full tonal range work comes with a false sense of purity of intent that insists 'this is photography'. Unfortunately, 99% of people disagree or... just don't give a sh!t. There has to be a moment when we accept that it's not everyone else that's crazy, it's us.

  10. #50
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    Photography is a language all it's own. Shadow detail is one of the words in it's broad vocabulary. There are no rights nor wrongs here. How you use these words in the vocabulary is up to you. It's my hope that people don't get too caught up in the grammar, and express something that's challenging and new.
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang

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