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  1. #21
    BradS's Avatar
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    Yes, I understand the relation between film speed and GN but does a ND filter imply a guide number change when the flash is used for fill? I would not expect it to. The ND filter is not covering the flash....and the flash doesn't know anything about the ND filter....

    Assuming a given camera to subject distance, the flash output needed for fill is the same regardless of the presence or absence of the ND filter - No?

  2. #22
    fretlessdavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS View Post
    Yes, I understand the relation between film speed and GN but does a ND filter imply a guide number change when the flash is used for fill? I would not expect it to. The ND filter is not covering the flash....and the flash doesn't know anything about the ND filter....

    Assuming a given camera to subject distance, the flash output needed for fill is the same regardless of the presence or absence of the ND filter - No?
    Yes, it does give a guide number change. Using a 3 stop ND filter will quarter your GN. It cuts both ambient light AND flash light going into the lens. It affects both in the same manner, so you can slap a 3 stop filter on and open your lens up 3 stops, in the real world. If you needed a 1/1000 speed to get your ambient balance correct at your chosen aperture, you could put a 3 stop ND filter on and get the same balance at 1/125.

    If you're running around doing fill flash with 3 stop ND on and 400 speed film, you'd have to calculate flash exposure, as well as ambient exposure, like you were shooting 100 speed film. So, yes, it does effect flash GN.
    New-ish convert to film.
    Pentax MX for 35mm
    Bronica ETRS for 645

  3. #23
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradS View Post
    Yes, I understand the relation between film speed and GN but does a ND filter imply a guide number change when the flash is used for fill? I would not expect it to. The ND filter is not covering the flash....and the flash doesn't know anything about the ND filter....

    Assuming a given camera to subject distance, the flash output needed for fill is the same regardless of the presence or absence of the ND filter - No?
    If the ND filter is on the lens, it will decrease the brightness of both the sunlight and the flash equally - at the film plane.

    But if you have enough flash power to, for example, achieve appropriate fill at 1/500 at f/8 (assuming EI of 125 and a leaf shutter) then a 3 stop ND filter will allow for the same result from 1/500 at f/2.8.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #24
    mweintraub's Avatar
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    Depending on the flash duration, you might run into issues with fast shutter speeds with very fast flashes.

  5. #25

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    Hey guys.. thanks for insight on this. I don't have a whole lot experiance using these filter. I live in New Mexico , and boy does the sun shine here a lot of days in the year. It's nice to know that I can have something in my bag to have a fighting chance on getting a good looking photo depite trying to pitch the optomal time of the day to customers (which they never listen too.) I'm wanting to get a 39mm ND6 or 8 for my Rollei.

    Todd

  6. #26
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    Very true

    Quote Originally Posted by mweintraub View Post
    Depending on the flash duration, you might run into issues with fast shutter speeds with very fast flashes.
    As long as the shutter duration is longer than the duration of the flash, it shouldn't be a problem. Some flash or strobe units have shorter durations at lower power so it might be advantageous to use a lower power setting. As for reducing DOF, using a long lens with a wide aperture will help.
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang

  7. #27
    mweintraub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    As long as the shutter duration is longer than the duration of the flash, it shouldn't be a problem. Some flash or strobe units have shorter durations at lower power so it might be advantageous to use a lower power setting. As for reducing DOF, using a long lens with a wide aperture will help.
    I thought the shorter duration were at higher powers.

    added: I've experienced issues where my strobes were not illuminating the frame when I shot above 1/200 and no, it's not my camera's sync speed because I used it below the 1/250s on the digital and the 1/400 of the RZ67

  8. #28

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    I'm doing a Strobist kit.. I'll be bringing out of retirement a Sunpak 544 on a monopod with Cybersync trigger/reciever and shoot through umbrella and Rollei T and 3.5F. So it look like I need to look for a ND6 or 8 for bright days.

    Todd

  9. #29
    BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fretlessdavis View Post
    Yes, it does give a guide number change. Using a 3 stop ND filter will quarter your GN. It cuts both ambient light AND flash light going into the lens. It affects both in the same manner, so you can slap a 3 stop filter on and open your lens up 3 stops, in the real world. If you needed a 1/1000 speed to get your ambient balance correct at your chosen aperture, you could put a 3 stop ND filter on and get the same balance at 1/125.

    If you're running around doing fill flash with 3 stop ND on and 400 speed film, you'd have to calculate flash exposure, as well as ambient exposure, like you were shooting 100 speed film. So, yes, it does effect flash GN.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    If the ND filter is on the lens, it will decrease the brightness of both the sunlight and the flash equally - at the film plane.

    But if you have enough flash power to, for example, achieve appropriate fill at 1/500 at f/8 (assuming EI of 125 and a leaf shutter) then a 3 stop ND filter will allow for the same result from 1/500 at f/2.8.

    ah...yes. Now I understand. Thanks guys.

  10. #30
    omaha's Avatar
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    Ditto on the filters.
    I shoot digital when I have to (most of those shots end up here) and film (occasionally one of those shots ends up here) when I want to.

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