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  1. #1

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    Metz 45CT5 & Fill Flash

    Hi,

    Recently I have been experimenting with using fill flash and although I understand the principle of how fill flash works I have come up against a slight problem/misunderstanding.

    Over the past day or so I have searched through the various threads and the answers generally reinforce what I know on the subject however, my problem is this.

    Using a Metz 45CT5 flash (I also have a 45CL4) with my Bronica SQA, an incident light reading is taken and the camera's shutter and aperture set accordingly. So say the reading is f16 at 1/250 for fill in flash I adjust the dial on the head of the Metz unit to f11 to give 1 stop less exposure and then to f8 to give two stops less exposure. What I actually did was take three photos one in ambient light (say f16 and no flash), another at f16 (on camera) with f11 set on the flash and a third at f16 and f8 on the flash for comparrison.

    However, I am getting back shadow on the fill in flash images which indicates to me the flash setting choosen is to powerful. Have I misunderstood how the auto dial works on the Metz head (I dont have an instruction manual unfortunately). Does the Metz 45CT5 unit have a single power output and the guide on top simply relate to the flashes power at specific distances? I thought I understood but am now somewhat confused!!

    Therefore knowing what a wealth of knowledge and understanding there is on this site I thought I'd just ask the question in the hope that someone has or has had a Metz flash unit who can possibly help/advise?

    My thanks

    John

  2. #2

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    First off you can likely download the manual for the current Metz 45 model. It'll be very similar to yours and even closer to the CL4 you have.

    The Metz auto mode is fairly good. It can be fooled like any other reflective meter. It can also be fooled if for some reason the flash eye isn't getting the light. This is mostly a problem when doing close ups. At least for me.

    If it seems the flash is putting out too much power all I can ask was the background dark? The other thing was the film speed set right on the flash?

  3. #3

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    I couldn't find a manual for the CT5 either. Auto aperture setting for the CL4 is with the top dial but I believe with the CT5 it's on the digital display on the back of the flash head.

  4. #4

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    Hi Nick and Chan,

    Thanks for your replies.

    What I should have added was that I positioned my girl friend (who acted as the model) at 90 degs to the sun so one side of her was in deep shadow. Just using the ambient light the shadows where dense with no detail. The fill flash both - 1 stop and - 2 stop did give detail in these shadow areas. Also the shadow of her body cast on the ground was given detail by the fill flash.

    The background was pretty normal, not dark at all.

    I would agree that both of these points tends to indicate that the fill flash is doing exactly what it should but I expected the back shadow created by the flash to be no existant. Again, have I misunderstood this.

    Many thanks

    John

  5. #5

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    You added a second light source so it created a second shadow. At least that seems to make sense.

  6. #6
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with the Metz setup on the Bronica. Is there a "Fully Automatic" mode where the flash is connected to a sensor within the camera body? There the output will be automatically reset to conform to the new aperture.
    I would guess that the Metz could be switched to "Thyristor" mode, where its light ouput would be contolled independently from the camera settings.

    "Thyristor" would be the way to go. For a -1 stop fill-in, simply set the film speed flash setting one stop higher than the actual film speed, 400 instead of 200; or set the aperture setting to one stop smaller than the one actually used, i.e. f/11 instead of the camera setting of f/8. Make sure that the thyristor sensor is not obstructed.

    Hope this help.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  7. #7

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    Sorry Nick,

    I think I missed lead you in my last reply. There was only one light source other than the sun and that was the Metz flash on the camera, but I took two shots for comparison. One at 1 stop less than the camera setting and the second shot at 2 stops less than the camera setting e.g:

    Shot 1 - The camera aperture was f16 the dial on the flash head was set on auto to f11

    Shot 2 - The camera still on f16 with the flash set at f8.

    From visual tests, just by observation, the flash when set at f16 gives what appears to be a stronger light than when set at a wider aperture such as f8. Not very scientific I agree but that was a quick test just prove I was correctly adjusting the dial on the flash head. I did try a more elaborate set up using a Sekonic L588 light meter and infra red connection firing the flash at different auto settings (e.g: f22, f16, f11 etc) but the resultant reading on the light meter proved to be all over the place, so not very reliable.

    Ed hi and thanks for your reply - I have to confess I'm a bit confused with what you have said, especially the bit about shutting down the aperture on the flash from f8 to f11. I would be grateful if you could possibly go over this some more.

    Thanks to you both

    John

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKJohn
    Sorry Nick,

    I think I missed lead you in my last reply. There was only one light source other than the sun and that was the Metz flash on the camera,

    Ya two light sources. The sun and the flash-) The sun cast a shadow one way. The flash coming I guess at 90 degrees cast the second shadow.

    I think Ed is asking about TTL flash. IIRC the SQA doesn't have TTL worse the CT5 doesn't support the Bronica module. The CL4 does but if the camera won't no use worrying.

    Thyristor is auto mode. I think.

  9. #9
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKJohn
    Ed hi and thanks for your reply - I have to confess I'm a bit confused with what you have said, especially the bit about shutting down the aperture on the flash from f8 to f11. I would be grateful if you could possibly go over this some more.
    I'd be happy to .... but first, what mode was used, "Manual", "Automatic', or ???

    In re-reading the message, I see that you've said "auto", that should indicate a Thyristor mode.

    I'm interested in the test with the flash meter; was the meter read relectively, and flash unit pointed at a suitably large target - say a grey (hopefully, but not mecessariy) wall? - Or was the flash pointed drectly at the meter, with an incident metering setup? Or...?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  10. #10

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    UKJohn,
    From what i've read in your initial post. Your original sequence seems correct.
    Basically your using a point light source that's going to cast a very strong shadow. The crux of the problem is the shadow cast by the subject onto the background.
    Determine which level of fill is your preference and take your model away from the wall. Another solution would be to take the flash off camera and raise it so the shadow is cast below your subjects head/shoulders. You might also try using a diffuser on the flash.
    Heavily sedated for your protection.

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