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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Nisperos View Post
    Um.... second thoughts are creeping in. I don't remember whether flourescent and HMI are qualified as "hot lights" too. Anybody wanna throw two cents in (Roger?)


    Surely fluorescents and HMI should be called 'cold' lights? The use of the word 'hot' for all non-strobe lighting seems a bit lazy: why not 'Tungsten' or 'incandescent'? OK the words are longer, take more effort to type....

    Banks of fluorescent tubes make excellent soft lights if shooting B&W – as ably demonstrated by Sanders (I thought they were flash) McNew – without risking fried models. Actually, as Sanders' models are generally devoid of clothing a hotter light source might be welcome?


    Richard

  2. #22
    Rolleiflexible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Kelham View Post
    Banks of fluorescent tubes make excellent soft lights if shooting B&W – as ably demonstrated by Sanders (I thought they were flash) McNew – without risking fried models. Actually, as Sanders' models are generally devoid of clothing a hotter light source might be welcome?


    Richard
    Depends on the season. :-)

    Seriously, it was the heat issue that drove me to make a compact-fluorescent softbox. I don't like flash. I needed so many halogen watts to generate enough light to get the pictures right, that the the lights were insufferable in the summer. Necessity, mother of invention, and all that.

    Sanders

  3. #23
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    Definition of "hot lights".

    When you burn your hand on them every time you adjust them.

    They're "hot lights."

    When you can fry an egg on them.

    They're "hot lights".

    When you need to swear every time you adjust them.

    They're "hot lights".

    Anyone who doesn't know what a "hot light" is, obviously has never used them.


    Hope this helps,

    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  4. #24
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    Matt's comments leave me a bit lost for words. I sure hope that I'm not too demanding to work with.

    It isn't a term I hear much, but I also thought that 'hot light' referred to a light that got hot. I guess that it's just a vague term, to be interpreted in the context of its use.

    Best,
    Helen

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helen B View Post
    I’ll start with a daft question: what does ‘hotlight’ mean? I’m not being snide, I’m puzzled.

    I’m fortunate enough to have a good collection of continuous lights as well as flash, so I’ll offer some vague musings on some of the differences – or maybe it is a paean to the fresnel light. Ignoring HMIs and Mini-Flos, most of my continuous lights are Arri Juniors between 150 W and 2 kW, which I regard as the industry standard small focussing fresnel lights. Along with those I have small 100/150 W dedos and the larger 650 W dedos, a 650 W ellipsoidal spot and a few open face lights – variable beam spread blondes (2 kw) and redheads (600 to 1000 W), and fixed beam spread broads (750 to 1000 W) including a few Tota-lights. As an aside, there are people who would prefer us to use the terms yellows and reds because they find offence in calling them blondes and redheads (I guess that it is discrimination against brunettes), but they seem happy with ‘broads’. Pause for a moment to imagine what else broads might be called, and a scene in which they are called that.

    Therein lies one of the main differences between continuous lights and flash to my mind – the type of instrument. My choice is based very much on the type of instrument I would prefer to use. The fresnel types, especially their close relatives the dedos, are so versatile and controllable. Even used directly, they act as a nice even round source. (With continuous lights not only can you see what you are getting, you can also stand at the subject’s location and look at the shape and varying intensity of the source - with your sunglasses on if necessary) You can create soft light of the exact quality you want by varying the size and location of the reflected or diffused spot, and by selecting the reflective or diffusive material. You have great versatility in the placement of lights and reflectors in a tight location – a soft source can be as thin as a piece of foamcore and the light itself can be over the other side of the room out of the way, or even outside the room. Reflectors used in that manner are another way round the heat problem. Softboxes and fluorescent light banks are like one-note instruments in comparison, though it may be a very pleasing note.

    Fresnel lights lose light into their case, especially when spotted. They aren’t so bad in that respect at full flood, when they approach the efficiency of the brutish open-face instrument. Dedos don’t lose as much light as standard fresnels, thanks to the extra lens. Neither dedos nor standard fresnels are great for evenly illuminating a softbox – they are good at doing it unevenly though, which is often preferable for portraiture. Open face lights do the evenly-lit softbox thing better. Totas are great for that.

    While talking about open face lights that use lamps with high temperature envelopes, and especially Totas, I really want to emphasise how important it is to use them with a guard or safety glass, even though you lose light through the guard, and it restricts the maximum wattage (eg 750 W for a guarded Tota vs 1000 W for an unguarded one. A 750 W guarded Tota puts out about half the light of a 1000 W unguarded one). It is very rare for a quarz halogen lamp to explode, but when they do the consequences can be awful. You have only to see it happen once for it to be impressed on you forever. Hot shards of glass come flying out, setting fire to things they pass through and embedding themselves into anything soft, putting little burn marks everywhere. Very dramatic, very dangerous. Totas are especially vulnerable because of the ease with which they can get fingerprints on the lamp envelope – the grease blackens, and the blackened area causes a hot spot with consequent stress from the differential expansion, then bang. It’s a worthwhile demo. Also be aware of the permissible orientations of the lamp and instrument because that affects the temperature distribution and cooling.

    None of the above means that you can’t achieve the same lighting effect with flash as with continuous light – there’s always a way, and it’s just a personal preference. The only thing I can think of that really distinguishes the two types of lighting is movement and sharpness. You can’t get motion blur with flash (unless you use it with continuous light) and you can’t usually freeze motion with continuous light in the same way that you can with flash. For me. the main attraction of continuous light is the thousand things you can do easily with a Junior, and the million things you can do more easily with a dedo.

    Bob, 6 kW on one circuit? I hope that you realise how fortunate you are. When I came to the USA I learned very quickly that you can’t hang as many kW off a 110 V spur as you can off the 240 V rings that are common in the UK. (“What do you mean - I can’t plug a little 2 kW Junior in?”)

    As for fan cooled units, if there’s a possibility of them being used for film or video with location sound, forget them.

    Best,
    Helen
    Is it just me or do others out there find Helen's technical talk strangely arousing?

  6. #26

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    Sooo hot.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Early Riser View Post
    Is it just me or do others out there find Helen's technical talk strangely arousing?
    Oh god yesssss.....!!!!
    Eddy McDonald
    www.fotoartes.com
    Eschew defenestration!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helen B View Post
    Matt's comments leave me a bit lost for words. I sure hope that I'm not too demanding to work with.

    It isn't a term I hear much, but I also thought that 'hot light' referred to a light that got hot. I guess that it's just a vague term, to be interpreted in the context of its use.

    Best,
    Helen
    Helen:

    Sorry if that came across wrong.

    By "demanding", I meant challenging, in a positive way.

    I was reacting to your depth and breadth of knowledge as revealed by these and other posts, and thinking about the learning experience (and appreciation for detail) that someone apprenticed to you would enjoy.

    Matt

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helen B View Post
    It isn't a term I hear much, but I also thought that 'hot light' referred to a light that got hot. I guess that it's just a vague term, to be interpreted in the context of its use.

    Best,
    Helen
    Well, hot lights are lights with 3800 lower to 3200 (most usually) and lower Kelvin degrees temperature of colour of light (flashes for example have about 5000 Kelvins (considered as daylight colour of temperature of light), depend of manufacturer). And because those lights become hot (that is can cause burns when touched, and melt umbrellas or soft boxes which are suitable for flashes, but not for hot lights) no matter how you look at them, you can call them hot. Ask one of mine models who posed for my first nude attempt. She didn't want to hear for me from then untill I got flashes. Now we are friends again...

    So, hot lights is term for lights with low temperature of colour of lights, for example when you shoot colour film suitable for daylight/flash lights under hot lights you get orange or red or yellow cast. Example is ordinary household bulb. So, lower temperature of colour of light, that light is considered as hotter. And those lights become hot when used, like said before can cause burns, melting, falmes in extreme siuations and explosion of bulbs (that is why lights with halogen bulbs have glass or steel net protection in front of bulbs...). Oposite, cold lights would be lights with colour of lights temperature above 5000 Kelvins, like and those lights give green/blue cast when daylight colour film is used with those lights.

    In short, hot/cold lights are terms used for temperature of colour of light in Kelvins those lights give (lower themperature, hotter lights, more red/orange colour of light, higher temperature, cooler light, colour of light going to green/blue), not are they hot or cold by touching them. They are hot or cold when touched, but it is just coincidence.
    Last edited by haris; 02-05-2007 at 06:32 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Bosnia... You don't have to be crazy to live here, but it helps...
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  10. #30
    DBP
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    The use of continuous lighting in photography did not include flourescent lights until fairly recently, so the term 'hot lights' was broad enough to cover all non-flash sources.

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