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  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by singlo View Post
    ..... the girl asked for it
    i try to keep 'em happy myself.

  2. #112

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  3. #113
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlo View Post
    Chris,
    In your book, you mentioned about the offending cross shadows in some hollywood portraits. Well they may be considered as mistakes. Guess what Peter Lindbergh have done to actress Milla Jovoich in classic Hollywood style of mood in the currnet issue of Italian Vogue? He deliberately throws the rule out of the window and create five conflicting shadows on the background with fresnel spots as fill! I know it is HMI fresnel becuase he sometimes include the light in the photo.
    Truth be known, during the writing of the book, Roger and I disputed this point a bit.

    As far as cross shadows on a background (or in the case of four-point cross-lighting, where multiple shadows on the floor will be inevidable), who cares? The viewer knows that the situation is not natural anyway.

    As far as cross shadows on a face: Personally, I think that a little bit of cross-shadowing can enter into the realm of "artistic license". On the other hand, too much of it (unless it's intended as a deliberate effect)... well, there I would agree with Roger. The resulting "look" would come across as a mistake and probably be a little distracting.


    Best,

    Christopher

    .

  4. #114

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    Christopher, Roger's and your book helped me set up the lighting for the example above.

    it was done with four 250W Home Depot shop lamps, and some cinefoil snoots.

    i've got a Duvetyn black cloth background on order. this is supposed to help light absorption, reducing the effect of stray light.

    i'm going to experiment with making the hairlight 100W, and using a 150W light on camera left (where there isn't much room for changing the distance).

    my next shoot with this model is sunday, july 1.

  5. #115
    Charles Webb's Avatar
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    Folks in this thread,
    I want to thank everybody who has been involved in this thread! I have enjoyed it it very much! Much valuable information has been shared with us. ! For myself, I believe it is one of the most interesting threads discussed so far on APUG. I hope to see more just like it in the future.

    Some time back, Christofer or some one mentioned a book
    that was in progress dealing with more of the Hollywood
    lighting techniques. Christofer, Roger anyone know more about such a book? I can guarantee they will sell at least one copy! ;-) Again, thank's !


    Charlie......................................

  6. #116
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Webb View Post
    Folks in this thread,
    I want to thank everybody who has been involved in this thread! I have enjoyed it it very much! Much valuable information has been shared with us. ! For myself, I believe it is one of the most interesting threads discussed so far on APUG. I hope to see more just like it in the future.

    Some time back, Christofer or some one mentioned a book
    that was in progress dealing with more of the Hollywood
    lighting techniques. Christofer, Roger anyone know more about such a book? I can guarantee they will sell at least one copy! ;-) Again, thank's !


    Charlie......................................
    Hi Charlie,

    It's nice to see such enthusiasm for a thread! You might be thinking of the book(s) by Mark Vieira. Personally, I've met and talked with Hurrell —but can't say that I really "knew" him. Mark actually worked with him so I presume that he shares some techniques in his books (I haven't seen the books but have read favorable comments on them). Google Mark's name and you can probably track down the books on Amazon. Perhaps someone reading this thread can comment further.

    Lastly, Mark Wangerin's book has been due-out "any day now", for a long time. Haven't seen any galleys but —judging by Mark's high quality of work— the book holds high hopes.

    Best,

    Christopher

    .

  7. #117
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy catelli View Post
    Hi Guy,

    Given the difficult situation underwhich the portrait was taken I think you first and foremost deserve compliments for your admirable effort!

    Try not to forget the golden rule of "one dominant light", otherwise you'll get a dark vertical zone on both sides of the nose. I think I understand what you were trying to do: have a side light ("kicker") to accent one side of the face. It ended up too strong and competed with you key light. Looks like you flagged-off the chest of your model. You need to flag that baby off her face too! (Flags are easy to make, especially if your light sources don't give off too much heat ... as with your flashes. Voila .. a weekend DIY project. Just what you need, right?)

    Speaking of flash .. OK, I understand that by mixing flash and continuous lighting you're simply using what you have. Bravo. But —wow— what a headache it must be to obtain some predictability. That puts a real brake on creativity. Don't forget that flash is in fact a damned explosion in a tube! While the modeling lamp can give us a very close approximation of the final look, the exact effect of the resulting lighting can't really be known without actually seeing a photo taken with the particular light(s) in question.
    Polaroids help. But IMHO, the sooner you can unify your lighting equipment, the better.

    Your posing has some real strong points, especially on the upper part of your model's body. Be careful with your hand posing to avoid an effect of foreshortening.

    As you know, many excellent "Hollywood portraits" have been taken with dark backgrounds. One aspect that can generally make a big difference between an amateurish look and that of a professional, is background seperation. I say "generally" because some of the greatest portrait photographers have backed their subjects right up to the wall or into corners and obtained exceptional results (Halsmann, Hurrell and Penn come to mind). But even in these cases you can still usually discern the shape of the subject's head. In your case —dark brown hair against a deep black background— deserves a reflector or a kicker or.. heck anything!to keep your pretty brunette's hair from melting into the outer-space void of your background. (I realize that you don't have much depth in your shooting space, that's why I don't list a simple background light).

    Hope these points are helpful to you!

    Best,

    Christopher

    .
    Last edited by Christopher Nisperos; 06-15-2007 at 04:03 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #118

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    your help is much appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Nisperos View Post
    Hi Guy,
    hi, Christopher,

    i can't tell you how much i appreciate receiving detailed pointers from an authority in the field of glamour lighting.

    Given the difficult situation under which the portrait was taken I think you first and foremost deserve compliments for your admirable effort!
    is it possible my situation has been confused with another poster's on this thread? i have two shooting stages: one illuminated by two 9-foot high windows with southern exposure for shooting with natural light, and the other for artificial lighting when the windows are covered in black. both are about 25 feet deep. and my ceiling is 11-1/2 feet high. it's not capacious by commercial studio standards, but it doesn't feel cramped either.

    then again, perhaps you are refering to the fact that i am still using shop lamps for lighting, with Cinefoil as DIY 'snoots'. i plan on getting photography-specific tungsten lighting asap, and will be asking for advice on what to purchase in a post below this one.

    Try not to forget the golden rule of "one dominant light",
    i will try to keep it in mind, going forward.

    otherwise you'll get a dark vertical zone on both sides of the nose. I think I understand what you were trying to do: have a side light ("kicker") to accent one side of the face. It ended up too strong and competed with you key light.
    actually, the model's favorite shots in your book were the portrait of Greta Garbo on p. 43 and that of Ann Sheridan on p. 87, both by Hurrell. (she's not the only model who feels that way, btw.) so, fwiw, the shadow down the center was intentional.

    Looks like you flagged-off the chest of your model. You need to flag that baby off her face too! (Flags are easy to make, especially if your light sources don't give off too much heat ... as with your flashes. Voila .. a weekend DIY project. Just what you need, right?)
    no 'flags', as such, but the Cinefoil 'snoots' in effect left some areas much darker than others. flags can certainly be easily made from cinefoil. does it require a dedicated stand just to mount a flag? (that would create a maze of 'legs' sticking out pretty quickly.)

    Speaking of flash .. OK, I understand that by mixing flash and continuous lighting you're simply using what you have. Bravo. But —wow— what a headache it must be to obtain some predictability. That puts a real brake on creativity. Don't forget that flash is in fact a damned explosion in a tube! While the modeling lamp can give us a very close approximation of the final look, the exact effect of the resulting lighting can't really be known without actually seeing a photo taken with the particular light(s) in question.

    Polaroids help. But IMHO, the sooner you can unify your lighting equipment, the better.
    that's a different poster. right now, i'm using halogen lights only.

    Your posing has some real strong points, especially on the upper part of your model's body. Be careful with your hand posing to avoid an effect of foreshortening.
    excellent advice -- i'll keep an eye out for foreshortening issues.

    As you know, many excellent "Hollywood portraits" have been taken with dark backgrounds. One aspect that can generally make a big difference between an amateurish look and that of a professional, is background seperation. I say "generally" because some of the greatest portrait photographers have backed their subjects right up to the wall or into corners and obtained exceptional results (Halsmann, Hurrell and Penn come to mind). But even in these cases you can still usually discern the shape of the subject's head. In your case —dark brown hair against a deep black background— deserves a reflector or a kicker or.. heck anything!to keep your pretty brunette's hair from melting into the outer-space void of your background. (I realize that you don't have much depth in your shooting space, that's why I don't list a simple background light).
    so far, i've been unsuccessful in satisfactorily addressing this issue, perhaps because i can't yet sufficiently control where my lighting falls.. but, i do agree with your observation about the problem.

    Hope these points are helpful to you!
    they certainly are. many thanks to you for your taking the time.

  9. #119

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    this one was shot yesterday (again, using shop lamps only):



    it was intentionally underexposed, because using 250W lamps (or less), requires longish shutter speeds and shallow depth of field. even with the underexposure, this one was shot at f/4, 1/15 sec, ISO 400.

    nevertheless, i wound up with an annoying hot spot on the subject's forehead. however, using "Recovery" in Photoshop CS3 to reduce the hot spot, while increasing overall "Exposure" (which brought the 'phantom' hair bun into view) resulted in some unsightly 'banding' on the face.

  10. #120

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    it seems that the next level up from shop lights is a $2000 to $3000 lighting kit from Arri. i don't mind spending that much money -- IF i wind up with something appropriate for classic Hollywood glamour lighting.

    which (if any) of these kits would be appropriate for this application (220V no problem in my studio):

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=&cltp=&clsgr=



 

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