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  1. #21

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    But they both use film, and they both use a pinhole, and they are both made out of wood, and they both use brass pieces. By that logic they must be exactly the same. I'll have to check and see if something as basic as a pinhole camera can even be patented in the USA, and if so who already owns that patent. With the age if the technology of a pinhole camera, I would almost bet money on it being considered "too basic" to receive a US patent. Doesn't Kodak own the patents for the 120 format films that both of these cameras use?

    And checking back through this thread, it is clear that I'm the one being accused of being Mr. Chan. I would go through and prove that I am indeed someone else, but I just can't be bothered to prove this to someone who most likely benefits from the sale of the Zero cameras. I'll tell your straight out, I'm more than a little angry about being accused, and companies that make me angry usually see a loss of profits in a very short amount of time. I'll be digging through the US patent office this weekend to see if there are any violations made by any Zero products, I bet I find at least one!

    If you really are just a simple customer of the Zero products, you have now done them a huge disservice!

  2. #22
    nsurit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amund
    The pinholecameras in question doesn`t look or operate as the Zero Image cameras as far as I can see, so how could there be copyright infringement here? Your post is pure BS, IMO...
    r assessment.


    As an owner of both a Zero Image 2000 and Zero Image 4X5, I would agree with your assessment.

    The technology, as applied to photography, spans three centuries, so I would assume the concept of pinhole cameras is pretty safe from patent and copyright infringement. Camera are but boxes with sensitized material on one side and a means for light to enter on the other. They all work that way. Here again, seems pretty safe from both copyright and patent problems.

    I look forward to getting my 8 Banners "Dragon" with its 6 X 18 format, spirit level, optical viewfinder and curved film plane, features which are missing from Zero Images line up of cameras. When I look at their 4 X 5 offerings, as well as their others, each seems to be pretty different from the Zero Image line up. Notice, please, that I said different rather than better. I love my Zero Image cameras and look forward to adding the 8Banners 618 to my stable of tools.

    It would appear that where Zero Image had a reasonable claim was with their exposure calculator on the back of the 2000. The one originally used with the 8Banners looked almost exactly like (read that as copied from) the Zero Image camera. 8Banners has now changed that and substituted an etched scale, which may or may not be as efficient as the Zero calculator. I might add that my experience with the Zero calculator on the 2000 is that it is hard to read. I've just purchased a Black Ct exposure guide and hope it will be a little easier on my eyes.

    Lets let the manufacturers fight this one out, while we use their tools to create our images. Bill Barber

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsurit
    I've just purchased a Black Ct exposure guide and hope it will be a little easier on my eyes.

    Are you aware of the program called Pinhole Designer? It has an exposure calculator that you might find useful, even takes reciprocity into consideration for a few films. http://www.pinhole.cz/en/pinholedesigner/ gives you a table for your film (if supported) that you can print and use in the field.

  4. #24

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    I have been using an 8 Banner for several weeks

    I ordered an 8 Banner from eBay and have been using it several weeks now. Let me add I also own a Zero Image 4x5 and Zero 2000 zone plate version. The Zero cameras are wonderful, no doubt about it. But the 8 Banner is very nice too - mostly because of the excellent shutter. This lets me add zone plates that I make myself. Also, you can easily switch between 6x6 and 6x4.5 with the 8 Banner.

    You can see a few photos taken with the 8 Banner and DIY zone plates on my site www.silverbasedstories.com. Go to 'work' and look under the section about zone plates and the gallery of figures above that one. You'll also see stuff taken with the Zero, but they aren't labeled. Feel free to ask what's what.

    I think the 8 Banner is different in many ways from the Zero. To be honest, the Zero is more of a work of art in terms of craftsmanship but the 8 Banner seems more of a workhorse and the shutter is great. I'm happy to own both and will continue to buy from both of these manufacturers. I hope they can live in peace because I love the products!

    Stephen

    PS - I'm new to APUG and didn't even know it existed until today. Looks like a good place!

  5. #25
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    Welcome Stephen S.

    Good to see you here Stephen! Very nice web site btw! Impressive work.

    Dave in Vegas

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wooten
    Good to see you here Stephen! Very nice web site btw! Impressive work.

    Dave in Vegas
    Why, thank you. It's sort of new and always under construction - a place to keep recycling images.

    I must add the whole zone plate thing I've been into lately has been quite stimulating. Am planning to incorporate a series of these into my documentary work in the upcoming months.

  7. #27
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    1. So are you at the moment in Israel or NY?

    2. As this thread pertains to your use of the Pinhole camera in question...I find it interesting that working photo journalists in light of the immediacy and prevalence of digital in the profession have in some cases reverted for some of their work to other alternatives...i.e. pinhole, wet plate, tintype etc...I was priviledged to meet Rob Kendrick in Nevada this winter and permitted to see and handle some of his beautiful Tintypes used in documentary of Texas cowboys...it certainly adds another reflection, meaning and emotion to a story....

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wooten
    So are you at the moment in Israel or NY?
    NY. I will be heading back to Israel for a stay of several months soon though.

    PS - As I'm responding here, I'm figuring out how the boards work.

  9. #29
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    oops....i hit reply before completion of the post above.... edit added...

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wooten
    2. As this thread pertains to your use of the Pinhole camera in question...I find it interesting that working photo journalists in light of the immediacy and prevalence of digital in the profession have in some cases reverted for some of their work to other alternatives...i.e. pinhole, wet plate, tintype etc...I was priviledged to meet Rob Kendrick in Nevada this winter and permitted to see and handle some of his beautiful Tintypes used in documentary of Texas cowboys...it certainly adds another reflection, meaning and emotion to a story....
    As this work is documentary in nature, the issue of immediacy is not so pressing for this project. My method, in terms of the technical, for this is traditional - I shoot with a rangefinder and some Tri-X.

    I think your point about digital is an excellent one and one I've been contemplating, discussing, and even lecturing about for the past 5 or 6 years. I was involved with the transition from film to digital on several newspapers and coming from a fine arts background I found the change interesting on many levels.

    My opinion is we'll be seeing more of this interest in 'other' techniques as people again come to realize there is an inherant quality, or a different set of values, in imagry that embraces the idea of gesture - the hand of the maker is central to the weight of the work.

    Its wonderful to see these changes and the mix of the traditional with the new is exciting.

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