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Thread: Pinhole swirls

  1. #21
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ěyvind:D View Post
    No problem: downsize the print: use enlarger or scanner/printer to make a copy smaller than the negative, I believe a 8x10" negative will be supersharp on a normal pc screen
    Like I said, the soft focus is in my opinion actually one of the charms of pinhole. And I have made very satisfactory A4 sized enlargements of my 4x5 pinhole images, and an A3+ sized digital print based on a scan of one of the A4 analog prints, that still looks extremely nice.
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    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

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    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  2. #22
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    The key to making pinhole images sharp is in how perfect the pinhole is, and how well it was treated to not have any internal reflections. Any shiny surface in the pinhole will cause light scatter within the frame. The thickness of the foil also makes a difference. The less 'tunnel' there is, the sharper the image will be.

    I use a Zero Image 2000 6x6 camera, and like Marco I appreciate the ethereal, dreamy, and soft look it gives. But it's incredibly sharp for a pinhole!

    On a technical level, sharpness isn't all that important in viewing a photograph. But tonality is. Keep working the pinhole material. Find subject matter that suits the look of the camera and off you go. Don't worry about sharpness.

    One of the sharpest pinholes I've ever seen is made in China by Skink. Andrew Moxom of these forums built a 4x5 camera around one of those pinholes, and it's really amazing how sharp it is.

    I attached a print scan from one of my 120 format pinholes from the Zero Image. Would you want it to be sharper?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ocean Side 001.jpg  
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #23
    Perry Way's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I attached a print scan from one of my 120 format pinholes from the Zero Image. Would you want it to be sharper?
    Actually Thomas, it is your pinhole shots uploaded to the gallery that got me really questioning how come I couldn't get better than I was with my 4x5. And it's what got me looking at the Zero Image camera too, only I don't want one of the medium format ones, I want the 4x5! I do want sharper than I've gotten. What I don't like is blocking of leaves or bark of trees beyond a few feet. That's what I'm getting.
    I love the wilderness and I love my trail cameras, all Fuji's! :) GA645, GW690 III, and the X100 which I think is the best trail camera ever invented (to date).

  4. #24
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    I have been eyeballing the beautiful ZeroImage pinhole cameras for a few weeks now; am about to splurge on the 6x9 Deluxe multi-format (6x6, 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x9). This thread is of interest to me regarding "swirls" and "flare"; while often an unwelcome blight on 35mm, with pinhole it adds dimensional and creative interest and on that point is worth dabbling with. The element of inherent unpredictability and especially, the soft, dreamy and rather 'other-worldly' effect these cameras naturally produce has instant appeal (that means I'm not out to strive for any degree of sharpness other than what is naturally delivered!) — even from those accustomed (and rather tired of) pin-sharp 6x6 or other larger format photographs. This is getting exciting.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

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  5. #25
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I use a Zero Image 2000 6x6 camera, and like Marco I appreciate the ethereal, dreamy, and soft look it gives. But it's incredibly sharp for a pinhole!
    Thomas, you are right the pinhole quality of the Zero Image cameras is high, my 4x5 gives very satisfactory results in this respect, comparable to your MF shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    This thread is of interest to me regarding "swirls" and "flare"; while often an unwelcome blight on 35mm, with pinhole it adds dimensional and creative interest and on that point is worth dabbling with.
    Some type of reflections, even with the high quality of the Zero Image pinholes, is just inevitable, since the "inside" of the "tunnel" of the pinhole is probably impossible to make completely black / anti reflective, and a pinhole will always have some "thickness" no matter how thin the material used.

    So, look for example at the effect of the strong street light in right section of this image (Zero Image 4x5), very much comparable to the rays caused by the sun in the images of 1SharpMonkey, you just have to accept it...:



    Marco
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  6. #26
    Perry Way's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco B View Post
    So, look for example at the effect of the strong street light in right section of this image (Zero Image 4x5), very much comparable to the rays caused by the sun in the images of 1SharpMonkey, you just have to accept it...:



    Marco
    That is no streetlight! That is a wicked Tesla coil spitting out tendrils of high energy plasma! Actually, on a serious note, that is very very cool. If the effect I noticed on my sample shot I uploaded was limited to a tiny area then it would be awesome. Average people would be drawn to it thinking it was some kind of special effect or special filter or something.

    Okay that settles things. I'm buying a Zero Image 4x5 75B Deluxe. Marco was this shot taken with only one body section? (25mm) Also, do you have one of the regular shutters or do you have the remote shutter system? I'm really thinking about the remote shutter so I don't have to fumble with bending over the camera to work the shutter. Just curious about feedback on quality/workmanship since you're the first person who mentioned having the 4x5 model.
    I love the wilderness and I love my trail cameras, all Fuji's! :) GA645, GW690 III, and the X100 which I think is the best trail camera ever invented (to date).

  7. #27
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1SharpMonkey View Post
    That is no streetlight! That is a wicked Tesla coil spitting out tendrils of high energy plasma! .
    Hehehe, yes, I got a free X-Ray in the process of making this photo

    Quote Originally Posted by 1SharpMonkey View Post
    Okay that settles things. I'm buying a Zero Image 4x5 75B Deluxe. Marco was this shot taken with only one body section? (25mm) Also, do you have one of the regular shutters or do you have the remote shutter system? I'm really thinking about the remote shutter so I don't have to fumble with bending over the camera to work the shutter. Just curious about feedback on quality/workmanship since you're the first person who mentioned having the 4x5 model.
    Yes, it was just the 25mm section. Be sure to buy a good supply of elastic bands(?) to couple multiple sections. Also note that there is huuuuggggeee light fall off to the corners, which I did combat in these shots using a printing method described in one of my postings in this thread. Scroll down to see my second post with photos and explanation how I printed them to combat the light fall off.

    The workmanship of the camera is very good, of the shutter system a bit less, but I have the version with the remote shutter. Just be aware that the thread the remote release must be screwed in, only allows it be screwed in a little. Therefor there is the risk of breaking of from the shutter system and the need to buy a new remote release...

    Is it handy? Well, depends. If you intend to shoot under strong light, with exposures of less than maybe 4 seconds, the remote release is probably handier than using the normal shutter system (sliding down of a small piece of wood covering pinhole - which still can be used in the version with shutter!).

    With long exposures, it is no problem. You can just as well slide the cover down. All in all, I have used the remote release quite a lot though, maybe just out of habit...

    One last tip:

    I made only one tiny adjustement to the camera. The pinhole plate that you can turn to allow for the changing depth of the camera when adding additional sections, is hard to turn by hand since you don't have "grip" on it. I glued a tiny (0.2x0.4 inch) section of fine sandpaper onto the plate, which makes it much easier to turn it.

    Marco
    Last edited by Marco B; 10-29-2009 at 12:11 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  8. #28
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Oh yeh, for those interested. The night pinhole photo was on TMax 400 and had an exposure time of 25 minutes, printed on Ilford Warmtone RC and selenium toned. I recommend anywhere from 20-45 minutes for night time photos with the Zero Image 4x5 camera in 25mm configuration (and probably also in the other configurations, as contrary to the stated F of 138, you need to overexpose in 25mm configuration by about 1 stop, due to the light fall off, to get a decent exposure) ON TMAX 400! On other film types, it may be hours...
    Last edited by Marco B; 10-29-2009 at 12:16 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  9. #29
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Marco, I'm actually thinking about buying one of those 4x5 Zeros. I would use it with a roll film back to make 6x7 images. Mostly just so that it's easier to wind film from frame to frame, and getting the negative to stay flat in the transport. It's also much easier to load a roll film back than the flimsy Zero 6x6 camera.
    220 film is another reason. Or even using Ilford Delta 3200 for night shots. And finally, it would give me the opportunity to shoot sheets if I really wanted to.

    Miles Nelson (MVNelson) posts images from his 4x5 Zero once in a while, and they are very good also. I believe he uses the triple extension to 75mm focal length. The 25mm seems awfully wide for 4x5, but obviously has some applications where it's beneficial (re: Marco's excellent photograph).

    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #30
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Marco, I'm actually thinking about buying one of those 4x5 Zeros. I would use it with a roll film back to make 6x7 images. Mostly just so that it's easier to wind film from frame to frame, and getting the negative to stay flat in the transport. It's also much easier to load a roll film back than the flimsy Zero 6x6 camera.
    The back of the 4x5 Zero Image is very well designed and takes the normal 4x5 holders and I have also had no problems at all with the Fuji Packfilm holder for 4x5 instant film. Just buy some good elastic bands to hold your holders or back! The ones that come in the package, are not the best, and it is just a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    The 25mm seems awfully wide for 4x5, but obviously has some applications where it's beneficial (re: Marco's excellent photograph).
    - Thomas
    Thanks for the compliment Yes, it takes some getting used to, framing the 25mm version. Actually, you may not have realized it, but the structures disappearing in the shadows in the upper left corner of the night shot, are actually some 40 to 50 meters high up in the sky. Only by using the super wide angle version of the pinhole, was I able to capture it all in one shot.

    My tip: get in close, closer, closest! That's the only thing I can tell you. It's super wide, maybe 120 degrees. Another nice example of where it can be stunning and give a super weird perspective:



    Marco
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

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