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  1. #51

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    Jim, you have an excellent point. Yes, I have gadgets but I didn't go into debt to get them. The problem I think is a lot of people aren't "tough" anymore. It has I think a lot to do with the entitlement society and attitude among too many people. Furthermore, parents today often let there kids get away with stuff that there is no way we'd get away with. (Although that being said, I do know people who are strict parents.) It's very frustrating to watch.

  2. #52

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    Ahhh, the good old days. Average income fell by 40% between 1929 and 1933. And most people didn't need to worry about saving for retirement since life expectancy was about 60 years. And, of course, antibiotics weren't generally available, so people had more kids because they didn't expect them all to survive. Yes, people learned to make do.

    Of course, anyone who looks back fondly on the Great Depression either didn't live through it or is delusional.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Jones View Post
    Income isn't what makes people wealthy as much as outgo keeps them from saving money. We tend to keep up with the Jonses. As an ancient Jones, I try to make that easy, but people persist in wasting money on large screen TVs, cell phones with cameras and GPS, video games, dinners out, and other money sponges. Most of these don't enhance the quality of life, but they do keep us from really living. Henry Thoreau may have overdone the basic lifestyle at Walden Pond, but it certainly beat going into debt for unnecessary baggage. Many Americans learned how to make do with nearly nothing in the 1930s. It was a tough time, but it made tough people who could teach their descendants much.
    I think this is pretty silly idea. One would have to be some sort of neurotic miser, fixated on collecting money to think savings counts for more than income. There's really no point in having a million in savings, if you lack the income to the maintain that sum when you spend it. Indeed there is no sense in having any money at all if you don't plan on using it for something. I agree however with everything after the first sentence.

  4. #54

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    Eventually you will have no, or drastically reduced income. At that point you start drawing down on that pile you put away. A good financial planner can run calculations that will tell you about when you will run out of money. Hopefully it's the same day you die.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  5. #55
    cliveh's Avatar
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    A cameras value is only in the pictures it creates.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  6. #56
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    The only way to see your Leica as investment is if you buy a vestment with a pocket big enough to hold it.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  7. #57
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    I would only hope that those who keep saving their money and never spending it on anything for fun would realize that they can't take it with them. I once heard a pastor say that in the many hundreds of funerals he had attended he never once saw an armored car following the hearse!
    Michael Cienfuegos


    If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please feel free to stand in front of them.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    A cameras value is only in the pictures it creates.
    I agree on the basis that productivity is the prime reason to buy a camera.

    To the OP, a camera that makes the pictures is worth more than one sat in a drawer, whatever the purchase price of each. Except every Leica body or lens I have ever bought (excluding a relatively recent full frame body that cannot be mentioned on APUG for reasons that go against the 'prime directive'), is now worth considerably more than I bought it for (ten lenses, currently three film bodies). Yet they are not investments, they are to use, and so have to take the potential abuse. So an 'investment' would be something to put out of the way of risk as much as possible, otherwise trying to use it is likely compromise the pictures made by being too careful.

    Steve

  9. #59

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    I shoot Leica and have bought and sold a few lenses. I have always profited, even if I paid "normal" used price when buying. I know at least one lens I owned that was worth $1100 in 2006 is now going for well over $2000. So yeah, if you choose lenses carefully, they will generally all appreciate. Bodies, not so much.

    And I can't think of a time when Leica lens values went down rather than up.

  10. #60
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Jones View Post
    Income isn't what makes people wealthy as much as outgo keeps them from saving money. We tend to keep up with the Jonses. As an ancient Jones, I try to make that easy, but people persist in wasting money on large screen TVs, cell phones with cameras and GPS, video games, dinners out, and other money sponges. Most of these don't enhance the quality of life, but they do keep us from really living. Henry Thoreau may have overdone the basic lifestyle at Walden Pond, but it certainly beat going into debt for unnecessary baggage. Many Americans learned how to make do with nearly nothing in the 1930s. It was a tough time, but it made tough people who could teach their descendants much.
    I have zero debt. Friends and acquaintances are very confused about how I manage to be semi-retired at 46 with a thirty foot boat. Some of it was just plain good luck, but it was important that I was in a mental and financial position to allow that luck to happen, and then be able to take advantage of it. Everything you have that you don't own, owns you. I learned that some time ago.

    All my camera gear has been an investment, but the investment is realized by the cash flow created by my use of the camera. There are about a zillion better investments than capitol appreciation on a camera. Burying money in a hole is among them.



 

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