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  1. #1

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    Helios-103 conversion.

    So, I've caught the Soviet lens sickness with a rather nice Jupiter-8.
    From reading around on the web, I've become interested in the Helios-103 53/1.8 which is available only in Kiev/Contax mount. In one forum, someone stated that the optics capsule from a Heilos would screw into the focussing mount from an Industar 61, this making a threadmount Helios. Looking at pictures of both, it seems that the rear of the optics on the Helios are too large in diameter to fit, does anyone know more about this?

  2. #2
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    This looks like another option, see Brian Sweeney's post:

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...p/t-99587.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixcinater View Post
    This looks like another option, see Brian Sweeney's post:

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...p/t-99587.html
    Thanks, I saw that. I'm sure my German genes would turn against me if I butchered one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Leitz-...item3a859b29e2 to mount a Soviet lens on a Japanese camera!!

    I have a Sonnar (J-8) and while I really like the Sonnar look, I was thinking a cheap and good double Gauss might be nice to have as well. The Helios and Industar ( to cannibalise) are cheap enough, but will it work??. Another uption is to buy a scrap Kiev for the focussing mount and make an adapter. I think there is enough metal in the mount of a J8 to bore it out to fit the Helios' optics capsule, but I've yet to find dimensioned drawings of the lenses. The adapter might be the best bet, just build one, once. I might even get lucky and find a scrap Kiev with a good Helios on it!
    Last edited by E. von Hoegh; 10-21-2013 at 02:35 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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    Hi E.

    If you are a Kiev or even a Contax IIa user they are nice lenses to try but doing a Mr Sweeny is hard work. All the Ja /2s or /1.8s are comparable paint brushes.

    The Kiev users will think it unfair.

    Noel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    Hi E.

    If you are a Kiev or even a Contax IIa user they are nice lenses to try but doing a Mr Sweeny is hard work. All the Ja /2s or /1.8s are comparable paint brushes.

    The Kiev users will think it unfair.

    Noel
    Hi Noel,
    I have access to a toolroom lathe and a jigborer, I shall not be doing a dremel hack. I started this thread in an attempt to sort out internet hearsay from reality - perhaps someone here has done this, or has the lenses in question and can provide measurements. Dimensioned drawings of the lensmounts would answer my question, as would five minutes with the lenses and a dial caliper in my hands.

    The J-8 is a Sonnar, the H-103 is a double Gauss symmetrical type and the two types have very different characters; The J-8 behaves very similarly to the 5cm/f:2 Zeiss Sonnar I had on a Contax II and the Helios should behave somewhat like my 50/f:2 Nikkor Hs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    The J-8 is a Sonnar, the H-103 is a double Gauss symmetrical type and the two types have very different characters; The J-8 behaves very similarly to the 5cm/f:2 Zeiss Sonnar I had on a Contax II and the Helios should behave somewhat like my 50/f:2 Nikkor Hs.
    Isn't the 50/2 Nikkor basically a copy of the six-element Sonnar? I got curious about this thread and dug around a little bit, and the Helios seems rather to be a close relative of the original Summicron. If it really performs similarly, that would be a pretty good argument for putting in the effort to adapt it to LTM!

    Sorry to jump in without helpful information. I'm interested in how this experiment goes, though. Do you expect that you can keep rangefinder focusing if you do a mount transplant of this sort?

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    Isn't the 50/2 Nikkor basically a copy of the six-element Sonnar? I got curious about this thread and dug around a little bit, and the Helios seems rather to be a close relative of the original Summicron. If it really performs similarly, that would be a pretty good argument for putting in the effort to adapt it to LTM!

    Sorry to jump in without helpful information. I'm interested in how this experiment goes, though. Do you expect that you can keep rangefinder focusing if you do a mount transplant of this sort?

    -NT
    No, that's not strictly true, they claim that but - the Helios, Summicron, Summitar, and nearly all modern 50mm std. lenses are Double Gauss types, a symmetrical design traceable back to an achromatic telescope objective calculated by K.F. Gauss. The Soviets just used a well known existing design, as did Leitz, Nikon, Pentax, Canon, Yashica,etc. My favorite 50 for my Nikons is the 50/2 Nikkor-H, another dG. The Nikkor S mount 50/2 is indeed a Sonnar type.
    Having the lens couple to the rangefinder is the whole idea! That's why I'm looking for a focus mount to put the optics in.
    Last edited by E. von Hoegh; 10-22-2013 at 11:49 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    No, that's not strictly true, they claim that but - the Helios, Summicron, Summitar, and nearly all modern 50mm std. lenses are Double Gauss types, a symmetrical design traceable back to an achromatic telescope objective calculated by K.F. Gauss. The Soviets just used a well known existing design, as did Leitz, Nikon, Pentax, Canon, Yashica,etc. My favorite 50 for my Nikons is the 50/2 Nikkor-H, another dG. The Nikkor S mount 50/2 is indeed a Sonnar type.
    Having the lens couple to the rangefinder is the whole idea! That's why I'm looking for a focus mount to put the optics in.
    You're talking about those funny Nikons with a mirror in the way, aren't you? :-) That explains my confusion. Very nice of them to reuse the "-H" suffix for different designs.

    The lenses aren't precisely the same focal length, right?---even neglecting manufacturing tolerances, you usually see the Helios listed as 53mm and the Industar as 52mm, so you'd have to put a shim somewhere. If it works, you could probably make a bit of pin money doing conversions and selling them...

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  9. #9

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    only Mr N Sweeny will have engineering details

    If you have a scrap Kiev you could make a contax to LTM adapter easier than a heliciod/rangefinder cam.

    Only the very late Kievs came with a Helious but they are so homely there is little demand.

    They do perform well compared with a good J8.

    The Helious seems to be a type IV summicron clone i.e. a simplified for production double Gauss

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    You're talking about those funny Nikons with a mirror in the way, aren't you? :-) That explains my confusion. Very nice of them to reuse the "-H" suffix for different designs.

    The lenses aren't precisely the same focal length, right?---even neglecting manufacturing tolerances, you usually see the Helios listed as 53mm and the Industar as 52mm, so you'd have to put a shim somewhere. If it works, you could probably make a bit of pin money doing conversions and selling them...

    -NT
    It gets knottier, they're neither. The Contax standard they are made to is 52.4mm, and the focus issues you hear of arise when using them on Leica standard bodies which are made for a 51.6mm lens!! The J-8s are marked 50, but are actually 52.4 also. You can shim them (on a Leica or other body made to that standard) to be spot on at infinity, in which case they'll focus farther away than the rangefinder indicates at closer distances, or you can shim them for close work and let DOF take care of the far error. An elegant fix would be to change the RF coupling arm and roller for one of the correct length to make the RF track perfectly at all distances. But then, the camera wouldn't couple properly with the correct lenses.

    The 'H' suffix Nikon used = hex, six; it denotes the number of elements and nothing else.
    Last edited by E. von Hoegh; 10-22-2013 at 02:15 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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