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  1. #11
    Bob F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amber lowe
    ack, i should have clarified that i have been notified by ebay and this is legit. <snip>.
    The scammers have tried to pull this one on me. As with you, eBay, cretinous idiots that they are, told me that no, it was not a scam... This despite the fact that the email the scammer sent me claimed to come from "2nd Chance" but was in fact sent via "contact member" and the "reply to sender" link that ebay's software automatically attaches to the end of the email pointed to a different ebay account from the seller's... Took me another, rather more scathing, email to eBay to get them to realise what was what... So that's a week the scammers had to con other people with that member account. Similarly, the scammer put in a last second bid - I spoke to the seller - they tried to get him to take a company cheque for 5 times the amount of the sale, take out his price (plus a bit extra "for his trouble") and send the rest to someone else as they owed that person the money, blah, blah, blah... about as transparent a con as you can get.

    Look at the header of the "2nd Chance" email - it should come from "2ndchanceoffer@ebay.com" (or something similar - here in the UK it's "2ndchanceoffer.uk@ebay.com) NOT "aw-confirm@ebay.com". If the latter, it is definitely a scam. Follow the link at the bottom of the email to reply to the sender and see if it is the sellers account (if it's a scam they will probably have said to reply via a different email address). Also, I note that you do not appear to be teh 2nd highest bidder - surely that bidder would have been contacted 1st with a 2nd Chance offer?

    The fact that the "winning" bidder is apparently in Taiwan and sniped it when the auction is restricted to the US suggests the seller may be legit and the scam was (and still is being) tried by the guy in Taiwan (or of course, they could be one and the same person: the permutations are endless...). Mrcallow has probably the best solution - contact the seller through eBay and see if he did in fact send you a 2nd Chance offer. However, for a $1000+ ticket item, I would want to collect in person.

    Bottom line: do not trust anyone - not even eBay itself... not even me - I certainly don't (well, I trust me obviously.... well, most of the time anyway)...


    Cheers, Bob.

  2. #12
    David H. Bebbington's Avatar
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    Hard to know who to trust, isn't it? Here's another one I don't know what to make of:
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW

  3. #13

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    well, initially i did believe it was legit but decided it was too risky. something didn't feel right. reading the last few posts lead me to check the reply link and sure enough, different seller. 'cept this guy's not too bright. his story is that he won't ship outside of the us and the email i'm supposed to reply to is a uk email address. you know how you usually just sorta skim over email addresses... thanks again guys!

  4. #14
    edz
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    FYI: What is very very common in eBay is self-bidding. Its, for many items and sellers, nearly the rule and not the exception. Sellers are motivated by psychology but also eBay's price structure to set the starting price low and self-bid the price up to the "true minimum". Many sellers watching a price go well beyond their original expectations can get greedy and push things "over the top". The second bidder is disappointed. It used to be the seller had fees to pay for something they did not sell. No longer! The official "second chance" offers provided via eBay are just one of eBay's, who get a percentage of the final price, measures to help encourage this kind of self-bidding greed. Since the markets are small they are, in this manner, easily manipulated and interestingly can results in general higher prices as those "disappointed" up their willingness to pay to win.
    Edward C. Zimmermann
    BSn R&D // http://www.nonmonotonic.net

  5. #15
    SuzanneR's Avatar
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    Try looking up KEH.com for used gear. Their prices will give you a good idea what things should cost. I've bought a couple of used cameras from them, and they have a fourteen day return policy. Something I don't think you'll get from E-bay.

  6. #16
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David H. Bebbington
    Hard to know who to trust, isn't it? Here's another one I don't know what to make of:
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW
    I think if I was looking for a Leica I'd only bid on this camera on the understanding that I could collect in person and pay cash. After all Doncaster is not a huge distance from most parts of the UK.

    Everyone using Ebay has to start from scratch with a Zero rating. In favour of this add is the camera has been reasonably photographed, it's a whole kit and looks in clean condition, so if I was after it I'd email to see if I could ask a few questions by phone.

    Personal contact works wonders, I bought a 10"x8" camera from the US and it was necessary to clear payment & shipping details before final bidding, as the seller had put shipped to US and canada only, not realising we have UPS in the UK :-)

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by edz
    FYI: What is very very common in eBay is self-bidding. Its, for many items and sellers, nearly the rule and not the exception. Sellers are motivated by psychology but also eBay's price structure to set the starting price low and self-bid the price up to the "true minimum". Many sellers watching a price go well beyond their original expectations can get greedy and push things "over the top". The second bidder is disappointed. It used to be the seller had fees to pay for something they did not sell. No longer! The official "second chance" offers provided via eBay are just one of eBay's, who get a percentage of the final price, measures to help encourage this kind of self-bidding greed. Since the markets are small they are, in this manner, easily manipulated and interestingly can results in general higher prices as those "disappointed" up their willingness to pay to win.
    There is a name for this practice. It is called Shill Bidding. Shill Bidding is not legal on eBay. If you have evidence that a seller or a their confederate is shill bidding, send the evidence to eBay Safe Harbour.
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  8. #18

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    I recently purchased an M3 ds with a 50mm summitar lens on ebay for $750. The camera was in excellent cosmetic shape and the shutter fired fine except for the slower speeds which indicated that it will need some work (cha-ching).

    The lens had some internal fog and the aperture was tight but the glass was unscratched, so I had the lens overhauled for $85 (money well spent).

    If I were to spend over $1,000 I would want the camera to be in very good mechanical shape. Why pay a premium price for a camera that needs work when you can the same camera for a lot less that needs the same work.
    Noel Cummings

  9. #19
    rbarker's Avatar
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    I agree with Suzanne about KEH being a good source of price-point info. Their prices will usually be at the high end of the spectrum, but their grading is accurate and they are excellent to deal with.

    M3s often carry a bit of a price premium, as that model has a bit of a cult following.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  10. #20

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    Apart from all that ebay..
    I would say 1000$ is not a good price for a M3. I picked my M3 as users for 500€ so including service that is about 1000 US-$. You are not talking about CAN-$?
    Do not worry too much about the vulcanite, unless stored away, reasonable M3s have some chips missing. (Stored away ones usually have trouble with shutter speeds) Stay away from M3s with nasty dents, dents on the right side of the upper body part might have damaged frame counter and transport, dents over the windows might have impacts on the rangefinder. 1-2 mm is not nasty, 5 mm sure is.

    So for a user M3 look for something with missing vulcanite some very small dents on the cover, as no collector will even look at them so price will be reasonable. Check for rangefinder adjustment and smooth transport, certain shutter speeds should make funny sounds like 1/30, check for 1 sec shutter speeds. Check rangefinder arm inside camera for signs of heavy tool use, read misuse. If times are off but generally running and rangefinder is a bit off - but not misused, all this can be handled by a CLA ( read general service by a specialist, 150 $-150 GBP). Usually a fair dealer will give in a few % off when you tell him his camera needs a CLA for sure and you would have to calculate that into the price.

    I rather pick my cameras personally and check them myself before putting down the cash, there are only three shops I would buy a used Leica unseen, mostly because I know these people. So don't exspect me to give advice on Ebay shopping.

    Summary:
    Check M3 for internal fitness, consider a CLA, do not worry too much about cosmetics, you want to use your M3.

    And you are welcome to come back, asking for which lenses to get with it..

    Wolfram
    Colour? We can always use an airbrush later...

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