Bill and lee, thank you for the information.
24/25mm is at the long edge of what I would want, but being able to utilize the standard view finder presents a level of comfort. Although, the leica bodies are simply too much money -- the glass I would consider. Switching between the aux finder and the range finder, really defeats my intent, and working style.
I guess I need to use a camera with the aux finder and see if there is sufficient control to do a proper job of framing. The bessa L @ <70.00 is real tempting.
Leaving viewfinder parallax aside for the moment, there are a couple of things that RF users get used to doing for street shooting and wides. Take a look at the C/V 21 and 25mm lenses and notice the levers on the focusing rings. These act as tactile focusing indices, and you can know about where you're focused and, once you're used to the lens, make adjustments before you even lift the camera up to your eye. In addition, the C/V 25mm has click stops on the focus ring at 1m, 1.5m, and 3m. Use them intelligently by feel before you raise the camera, and with a properly chosen aperture the DOF will cover you. You might also want to calculate the DOF for the 21mm f:4, even wide open. There's a lot of room to move there, and combined with the feel you'll get for the focusing lever, this is not a huge problem, even with an auxiliary finder and no rangefinder.
Lots of street shooters who "stalk" their shots don't have the camera up in their face for more than a fleeting second before and after the shot. This style of shooting benefits from wide angles and what I think of as a manual pre-focusing lever. Several RF shooters I know scoff at the idea of waiting for a camera to focus itself when they can have it done before the camera is raised.
Obviously, this may not be the way you prefer to work, but it's a traditional one that's been very successful for a number of people, and is not obvious at first glance to someone who's not used to 35mm rangefinders with focusing levers/tabs.
this is not far from how I have been shooting for the past 8 or 9 years (Mamiya 6 w/50mm). At this point my only sticking point is framing. I suspect that framing is a surmountable hurdle.
...the danger of rambling on when you don't know your audience well.
Originally Posted by mrcallow
Are you near anyone who stocks the C/V stuff, or perhaps a used Leica 21mm finder just to look through? A used Leica finder would probably cost nearly the same as the C/V finder and lens combined.
There is a CVUG list associated with cameraquest.com, and you could probably get a decent percentage of your costs back selling there if you're willing to take a chance on buying one. Or you might pick up a used one there with a "wanted" ad. That might also be a good place to ask about frameline accuracy. I'll have my set back in a month or so, and I could run a framing test for you after that.
I'm developing a film tonight - after sunset. So I should be able to say something about the frameline accuracy very soon.
-- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
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I have learned a good bit on this thread from you and if either of us (especially me) assume I already know something than a chance to learn will have gone to the way side.
Camera Mrt (about 20 miles north) and possibly Adray (20 miles south) may have the equipment for me to at least inspect.
I am very interested in your results, with regard to the new IR film and the frame lines.
I use a 15mm with a Bessa R and the depth of field is so great that you can just guess the focus off the range scale on the lens in safety. I use a 21mm on an SLR, but find again that I really dont have to focus.
I feel the same way about at least getting the information out there, and I see APUG is a repository of collective experience, so I do share and appreciate your attitude. Looks like you really are in Ferndale... I thought it might be a joke on the old "Ferndale Tonight" Martin Mull TV show. You're lucky to have actual camera stores nearby, and two at that. Hope you can find a sample to look through. Turns out I'm not that far away by some standards, a bit SW of Cleveland. If you have no luck getting your hands on the C/V stuff, maybe we could meet halfway and you could shoot a roll with my wides after they return home from loan.
I was also finally relieved of parental duties long enough to sit down and find my DOF spreadsheet and run the numbers. (My wife is on the schedule from hell.) Here are the hyperfocal distances in meters for a 21mm lens with a circle of confusion of 0.025mm, a slightly conservative calculation. Near edge of focus is half of hyperfocal distance.
Aperture / Hyperfocal distance in meters
4.0 / 4.41
5.6 / 3.15
8.0 / 2.20
11.0 / 1.60
16.0 / 1.10
22.0 / 0.80
So even wide open with the C/V 21mm at f:4, you're covered from 2.2 meters to infinity, and at a near optimal f:8, you're good from 1.1m to infinity. Back it off a bit if you don't need infinity, then point & shoot, and don't worry a lot about perfect focus, or just guess-timate focus as David mentions and you can hardly miss.