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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    ...if they have a name that ties in with an existing successful product, so another version of candy named Snickers (for instance) sells much better than a new product with an entirely new name.
    I totally agree with you. This naming thing reminds me of my old Japanese Fender electric guitar from the 80's. It was the licensed copy of the original Fender Telecaster, but it was manufactured in, once again Nagano or Hamamatsu somewhere between Tokyo and Nagoya.

    At that time I heard any electric guitar priced under 500 USD or so, was basically manufactured in the same factory there, but when it gets shipped out the name plate such as Fender, the sister brand of Gibson is patched up.

    There were a couple of other Japanese brands such as Greco that made the copies of the original Fender, Gibson, and Gretch.

    Fender Japan had a good reputation from the professionals for its quality and the low price up until the early 90's or so. The materials used for the bodies were different kinds of wood, which made differences in sound compared to the original models, but overall the copied ones were still likable to many people.

    But sometime in the 90's it became a made-in-Mexico brand to further lower the cost, and I've just never heard anything good about it ever since...

    Anyway that's my take on the silly brand names.

  2. #12
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker
    Fender Japan had a good reputation from the professionals for its quality and the low price up until the early 90's or so.
    Hmm. I always heard that the good Fenders were pre-CBS, i.e. pre-1966. I remember people complaining about the quality going downhill under CBS after that. I think fans of the brand bought the company back in the mid-80's, but haven't heard anything about quality after that, and have no idea about current production.

    Are we off topic yet?

    Lee

  3. #13
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    I think the rights to Voigtlander were acquired by the owner of Cosina in order to get some acceptance

    there was an article about this somewhere... pop-photo maybe
    Mama took my APX away.....

  4. #14
    titrisol's Avatar
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    Found it:
    http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?...rticle_id=1990

    "Speaking Frankly: The Contrary Mind of Hirofumi Kobayashi"
    By Herbert Keppler - April 2006
    Mama took my APX away.....

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    Hmm. I always heard that the good Fenders were pre-CBS, i.e. pre-1966. I remember people complaining about the quality going downhill under CBS after that. I think fans of the brand bought the company back in the mid-80's, but haven't heard anything about quality after that, and have no idea about current production.

    Are we off topic yet?

    Lee
    I agree about the decline of the quality in the newer ones (not the original-original), but now the ones from 70's are old enough to be vintage, too. And I don't know too much about the 80's production.

    I fotgot to add that Fender Japan had its small division of "Esquire" brand, but that was kept in Japan also, and that was dirt-cheap guitar brand. It was more like Yashica-brand Kyocera v.s. Contax-brand Kyocera you know what I mean? The same quality but different names.

    I guess we are still on topic.

  6. #16
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titrisol
    Thanks for the link. A fine summary article. Haven't read Pop or Modern since about '73.

    Lee

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L
    Cosina is so used to issuing their cameras with other brand names on them, Nikon, Olympus, Rollei, Epson, Zeiss, etc.

    Lee
    Lee, when did Cosina issue one of their cameras with the Zeiss name on it?

    Bill

  8. #18

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    If you flip through the pages of Japanese Asahi or Nippon photo magazines, you'll be shocked at how much coverage the new Voigtl?der and Zeiss photo equipment and other film cameras get. You may shake your head and figure such equipment must be a Japanese passion.

    By Herbert Keppler

    http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?...rticle_id=1990


    And I never subscribe the "Japanese passion."

    You know his comment is just as the same as the guys on those Japanese camera magazines (I have ever flipped through the pages of) on American or European markets. They try to mystify things beyond the reach of an average consumer, I suppose, and that helps to raise the prices of the products they have in their mind.

    Well, it's nothing new...

  9. #19
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biogon Bill
    Lee, when did Cosina issue one of their cameras with the Zeiss name on it?

    Bill
    They are currently doing it now- the new Zeiss Ikon 35mm RF cameras.

    Back to the earlier "joke" about the R3M business- I thought the comment about the Bessa R3x starting to seem like a Leica M3 was more a shot at the Leica business model of making gobs of limited edition versions of whatever the current M-series camera is, to get collectors to spend even more inordinately-large sums of money on filling in the holes in their collections - let's see... we have the ostritch leather titanium M6, the ostritch leather black titanium M6, the ostritch leather brass-and-chrome M6, the ostritch leather and ostritch feather 750th anniversary of the Pahlavi family's ascension to the throne of Iran M6, the Zodiac M6's, the Chinese Zodiac M6's, and oh... here's one we don't have... the new Marquis De Sade black-and-blue-steel M7....

  10. #20
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biogon Bill
    Lee, when did Cosina issue one of their cameras with the Zeiss name on it?

    Bill
    TheFlyingCamera is correct. See page 3 of the linked Keppler article for details. The current Zeiss Ikon M-mount rangefinder is a revision of the C/V Bessa R2A, built to meet and pass Zeiss specs and QC. The majority of the lenses for it are made by Cosina to Zeiss designs and specs. And Cosina is collaborating with Zeiss on the new Zeiss SLR lenses. Cosina has also made their own line of SLR lenses for older SLR manual focus mounts for several years now.

    Lee

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