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  1. #21
    snegron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackinaw View Post
    Roger's been spending a lot of time over at the Rangefinder Forum the past several days. I suspect he'll come back here eventually.

    Jim B.
    I'm not to sure. I was on rangefinderforum and Nikonians the past couple of days and didn't see him there. Maybe he is on vacation!

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegron View Post
    I'm not to sure. I was on rangefinderforum and Nikonians the past couple of days and didn't see him there.
    He's there. Check out the "Using flash with a Leica" thread. You'll find several posts from Roger there, including one sent today.

    Jim B.

  3. #23

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    ".

    BTW: The Nikon S-mount is a variation on the German Contax C-mount. After WWII, the Contax facilities wound up on the East German side and the plants were dismantled and moved to the former Soviet Union.

    In order to "protect" this "system"; the US occupying forces in Japan encouraged Nikon to develop a camera using the C-mount, as the S-mount. Up to 50mm (5.0cm) old Nikon and Contax lenses are compatible and can be mounted on bodies of either manufacturer.

    However, differences in film planes prevent such compatibilty at 85mm and higher focal lengths.

    Oh, and just as the US encouraged the Nikon to make C-mount; they did a similar thing with Canon; which produced camera/lens kits in the early post-war era using the Leica screw-mount system.

    Was all of this outright patent violations? Without a doubt. And much more has been written about it elsewhere than I could ever write here.

    As I understand it both German and Japan lost their patents following the war as retuibution, Pentax used the 42mm, Topcon the Exacta mounts.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Howell View Post
    ".

    BTW: The Nikon S-mount is a variation on the German Contax C-mount. After WWII, the Contax facilities wound up on the East German side and the plants were dismantled and moved to the former Soviet Union.

    In order to "protect" this "system"; the US occupying forces in Japan encouraged Nikon to develop a camera using the C-mount, as the S-mount. Up to 50mm (5.0cm) old Nikon and Contax lenses are compatible and can be mounted on bodies of either manufacturer.

    However, differences in film planes prevent such compatibilty at 85mm and higher focal lengths.

    Oh, and just as the US encouraged the Nikon to make C-mount; they did a similar thing with Canon; which produced camera/lens kits in the early post-war era using the Leica screw-mount system.

    Was all of this outright patent violations? Without a doubt. And much more has been written about it elsewhere than I could ever write here.

    As I understand it both German and Japan lost their patents following the war as retuibution, Pentax used the 42mm, Topcon the Exacta mounts.


    Interesting info! Is there any problem with compatibility in wide angle range? I was looking at newer S mount Voigtlander lenses today. The 35mm looks tempting.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegron View Post
    Interesting info! Is there any problem with compatibility in wide angle range? I was looking at newer S mount Voigtlander lenses today. The 35mm looks tempting.
    The Cosina lenses are fully S-mount compatible as they are intended to fit the R2S which is basically a SP with a built-in light meter (although not built as well).

    Contrary to the statement above - the patents were not surrendered as war retribution.

    But there was a Cold War b/w the West and the SU, the latter of which had shipped Contax plants eastward and also chose to violate Leica's patents for the screw mount as well as Contax's for the C-mount.

    SU "Contax" cameras were built in the Ukraine as "Kievs". Someone else here will know the name of the Leica-likes that use screw mounts (the name escapes me right now).

    At the same time, the US could not know for sure if the "Iron Curtain" would advance westward and take over the western German plants Leica and Contax/Zeiss.

    So they "authorized" Canon and Nikon to make bodies and lenses that used those systems. This was a case of expediency over law. And since Japan was an occupied country at the time under US military law - who was to stop this?

    Eventually, Contax/Carl Zeiss (the West German version) pursued patent claims against Nikon throughout the 1950's and finally entered into a settlement agreement in the early 1960's.

    By then the issue was moot. Nikon had moved on from RFs to SLRs and Contax/Zeiss, as a camera manufacturer, was dying a slow death.

    Meanwhile, Leica ultimately protected itself by abandoning the screw-mount and adopting the M-mount for its new, post-war bodies. Since Canon's foray into screw-mounts was brief, and since Leica had "moved on", Leica never engaged in patent litigation against Canon.

    The ultimate irony is that Zeiss introduced a line of F-mount lenses about two years ago after the F-mount patent expired. I'm sure they had real business reasons for doing so. But maybe also, it was a kind of a way of reminding Nikon that some "hard feelings" remained?

  6. #26
    snegron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post

    The ultimate irony is that Zeiss introduced a line of F-mount lenses about two years ago after the F-mount patent expired. I'm sure they had real business reasons for doing so. But maybe also, it was a kind of a way of reminding Nikon that some "hard feelings" remained?


    That is a very interesting observation! I wonder if the new Zeiss F mount lenses were made to exceed Nikon lenses in terms of quality as well? For some time now I have tossing around the idea of getting one of those new Zeiss lenses (particularly the 35mm), but there seem to be mixed reviews and feelings about them. While Zeiss is a trusted, tradtional name, Cosina seems to be considered by many as makers of inexpensive equipment. If I had the chance to actually see one of these lenses in person (instead of ordering one and returning it if I don't like it) I would find it easier to either purchase one or not.

    As for the S mount, I think I would be more willing to buy one of the Cosina- made Voigtlanders based on specs alone mostly because they are much less expensive alternatives to original Nikkor S lenses and are more readily available.
    Last edited by snegron; 12-04-2007 at 08:17 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegron View Post
    .....

    As for the S mount, I think I would be more willing to buy one of the Cosina- made Voigtlanders based on specs alone mostly beacuse they are much less expensive alternatives to original Nikkor S lenses and are more readily available.
    I agree on this depending on which lens you are talking about. The original Nikkor 3.5cm* (I think it was a 3.5f/l) was a "dog". The later 2.5 was a very good lens and, if you can find one, is worth it.

    However, I decided to go with the Cosina at 85mm; because the Nikkor 8.5cm/85mm are scarce and very expensive if you can find one - and then it is a 50 y.o. lens!

    *Note: most Nikon (i.e. Nikkor) RF lenses used the centimeters nomenclature except for the latter ones that used millimeters. I've never known why the industry changed from "cm" to "mm" - but it did - sometime in the late 1950's.
    Last edited by copake_ham; 12-04-2007 at 08:22 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #28
    snegron's Avatar
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    Any opinions on the Nikon RF version .5cm 1.4 S-C, chrome version?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    ...

    SU "Contax" cameras were built in the Ukraine as "Kievs". Someone else here will know the name of the Leica-likes that use screw mounts (the name escapes me right now).
    On the 26th of October, 1932, 3 hand made copies of the Leica 1a were assembled by at the FED Working Commune by the staff of Felix Edmundovich Dzerjinski Working Commune Communards, many of whom were girls and boys between the ages of 13 and 17 years, Also Known as Young Orphans of The Revolution.

    Production of the first Ukrainian 39mm screw thread camera (the FED-1) started in January, 1934. The FED-1 cameras were built at the FED Working Commune by the staff of Felix Edmundovich Dzerjinski Communards.

    FED comes from Felix Edmundovich Dzerjinski (founder of the Tcheka - the Soviet Secret Police).

    39mm screw thread mount FED cameras were still being made late into the 1990s. Other FSU 39mm screw thread mount cameras were the FED Zorkis and the KMZ Zorkis.

    Source: Made in USSR by Jean Loup Princelle. A Hove Foto Book, 1995
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegron View Post
    Any opinions on the Nikon RF version .5cm 1.4 S-C, chrome version?
    I think you mean 5.0cm (cm's are BIGGER than mm's).

    The 5.0cm/1.4 was the standard "kit" lens sold with the S2.

    They are plentiful and they are legendary. This was the lens that the Life magazine photographer took to Korea with the S2 body. Legend has it that when he sent the first photos to his editor he was asked how he was able to get such clear shots with a MF camera! His reply that they were taken using a Japanese 35mm camera with a "normal" lens.*

    The rest is history as Nikon became the camera of choice for PJ's - and also the S2/5.0cm/1.4 became the "kit" that many US GIs based in Japan bought at the PX before returning home.

    * Legend also has it that the Life PJ was offered his "pick of the lot" from a line of 5.0/1.4 lenses to see if there was a difference (at the time, there was concern that Japanese QC was inconsistent) and he couldn't find a flaw in any lens he tried.

    If you didn't get a 5.0/1.4 with your S2 - I'm surprised.

    EDIT: At this point, I really think you should check in at the Nikon Historical Society:

    http://www.nikonhs.org/

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