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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by billschwab View Post
    Yeah... a dying profession. Having gotten over the whole border thing and not a big fan of it myself, I for one really like the use of the border here and feel it adds to the graphic quality and compliments the image AND front page. I say give the editor a pat on the back.
    Sure. It looks good IMO too...if you judge it as a fine art photograph...which it is not supposed to be when used this way.

    It *is* nice for the NYT to be back to good-ol' black and white on the front page...if only for a day. I vividly remember the first day they switched to color. To their credit, they did hold out for a good deal longer than most other papers. OK...call me a traditionalist...but that's how I likes mah news! Straight, by the book...and in black and white!
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 05-08-2009 at 07:41 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  2. #12
    bill schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    ...if you judge it as a fine art photograph...
    Your opinion. They are doing something somewhat fresh. The profession needs to adapt to survive and this is hardly a threat.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by billschwab View Post
    Your opinion. They are doing something somewhat fresh. The profession needs to adapt to survive and this is hardly a threat.
    I don't recall stylistic freshness being one of the basic news determinants. Media are always changing, but fundamentals remain the same. If I want fresh and stylish, I will seek it out myself in some place other than a newspaper...like in a publication that ethically has the creative license to seek freshness and style. Every compromise of journalistic standards and ethics is a threat. The threat to newspapers is bad journalism that everyone can get for free, and the lowering of standards...not that the style of photographs is stale. You can't make up for these things that are causing big problems by using stylistic gimmicks as patches.

    ...and of course it is my opinion. It's certainly an interesting photo, and there is nothing wrong with a news photograph being dramatic. I just *do not* get the justification for the frame edges in any way, shape, or form. That's all. The purpose of the Times is to tell the news. They do this using words and photographs as media, not to exhibit photographs (or words, for that matter) for sake of exhibiting photographs (or words).

    I wonder when the picture was taken.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 05-08-2009 at 08:26 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  4. #14
    bill schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    Every compromise of journalistic standards and ethics is a threat.
    Look, I realize you ride a pretty high horse when it comes to journalism and I repect that. However I will say it again, this is hardly a threat. A black line does not make for "bad journalism".

  5. #15

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    Thanks, Bill. As I said, I *like* it. I just don't *get* it in this context.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  6. #16
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    It's the Sunday Times. The Sunday edition usually is a bit more leisure oriented than the weekday paper and has been that way for many years. I think it's a good photo, and a little more creative license is perfectly in keeping with the Sunday paper.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    It's the Sunday Times. The Sunday edition usually is a bit more leisure oriented than the weekday paper and has been that way for many years. I think it's a good photo, and a little more creative license is perfectly in keeping with the Sunday paper.
    You're right. To their credit, it does look like a more feature-oriented article (and perhaps it even jumps to a different section), and as you say, it is the Sunday issue, which usually leads with a feature unless there is big hard news going on.

    ...but with such great freedom of the press, it is up to the public to be the watchdogs on such issues, so we have to at least consider the quality of information we receive. My point is that even though the photo itself is harmless, we should all take notice of the fact that it *is* taking a notable degree of creative license. The problems come when this is so common that it goes unnoticed and is accepted as the norm. *That* weakens the paper, IMO; the public not caring about standards. The NYT is one of the only papers on which I can rely for traditional news. I go out of my way to read it, even as a lifetime Los Angeles resident. I like them for their stick-in-the-mud formality and straight-ahead classic approach...though it is definitely softening. (Must be its old age! )
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 05-08-2009 at 08:39 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuhead View Post
    Xpan frames have a little notch cut out upper right.
    Mine has the same notch...:-)
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  9. #19

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    OTOH, frame lines show that the subject was not skewed or biased in any way by cropping. If you look at it that way, it holds more true journalistic truth/function than one without, assuming they're real frame lines when you see 'em.

    Food for thought...

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by PVia View Post
    OTOH, frame lines show that the subject was not skewed or biased in any way by cropping. If you look at it that way, it holds more true journalistic truth/function than one without, assuming they're real frame lines when you see 'em.

    Food for thought...
    Definitely something that comes to mind. However, I think this is only the case if it is assumed that the way the image was composed in camera provides a greater journalistic function than the cropped image. IMO, that is not a good assumption at all. Most photographers' images are at the very least improved, if not largely "made" by good editing. At least this is the theory behind editing; to improve, arrange, and clarify raw material for consumption (OR totally weed it out in some cases). Theoretically, if an image is being cropped at all, it is to increase its journalistic function; even if for no reason other than page layout considerations. No good editor crops an image "just because". The purpose of a journalistic image is not to comment on itself or to prove its own journalistic integrity, which is what you are talking about. It is to further the understanding of an event by the masses, and almost always as a supplement to text. Journalism should not have to say "Look! I'm proper journalism! See!" That is assumed when you pick up the Times. Whether this is a correct assumption or not...who knows? Certainly a better assumption than assuming this of the Daily News (sensationalism), the U.S.A. Today (idiocy), the Journal (propaganda), or other such rags.... Nothing is without flaw, but I don't think we really need to fear propaganda via cropping in any of these sources to the degree that showing frame edges is necessary to prove an "unmanipulated" image.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 05-08-2009 at 10:33 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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