25mm View on a Zeiss Ikon
Hello to all.
I was looking into getting a ZI and saw a post somewhere that stated that the full viewfinder corresponds to the view of a 25mm lens. If this is true, then the lower range of lenses without an external viewfinder drops from 28mm to 25mm. I know that you lose the area outside of the frame lines but this could eliminate the need for the external viewfinder. Also, I suspect there will be significant blockage in the viewfinder from the lens and shade.
If I have to use an external viewfinder then I would rather limit it to just one.
I was planning a lens selection of either: 18, 25, 35, 50, and 85; or 21, 28, 35, 50, and 85.
Could any owners of the ZI and 25mm help with this issue?
I don't have a ZI but I can't imagine the situation is that much different from an M. The widest framelines are 28. Sure you can shoot 25, 24, and 21 without a viewfinder, but its a guess as to what's actually going to be on the edges. It's already a bit of a stretch sometimes with 28 - it's not like RF's are known for super accurate framing. So if precise framing isn't a huge deal to you, then you'll probably be fine with 25 and the whole finder. On the other hand, unless there's some big motivation to go 25, why not just get a 28? You have a wider choice at 28 and you don't have to worry about the finder at all.
Personally I find 35 and 50 a bit too close for me. I shoot 15, 28, 50, and 90. I do have a 21 in the mail though...
Diagonal View Between Lenses
Why I like the 18, 25, 35, 50, and 85 selection is it averages about 18 degrees diagonal view between lenses. Using http://imaginatorium.org/stuff/angle.htm, I get the following:
25 (81.75) -18.73
35 (63.45) -18.30
50 (46.80) -16.65
85 (28.57) -18.23
I think it’s a nice even spread between lenses. The 35 to 50 is a little smaller but some people use both the 75 and 90 on their Leicas and only get 5.15 degrees between lenses.
As a 25-35-50-90 user I can vouch it is an excellent selection. I'm not a 28mm user but I love Zeiss 25mm which is spectacular. For me composition and perspective with a 21mm lens is more challenging. I can add a Zeiss Biogon 18mm later if I really get into that ultra-wide stuff.
Originally Posted by ragnar58
I have a Zeiss Ikon. There certainly are people who use a 25mm lens on it without an external viewfinder. I've never used the 25mm lens personally. I am certain you'd get viewfinder blockage with the 25mm lens because it's a big one. The 28mm framelines are close to the edge, and using Zeiss's 28mm lens you have some viewfinder blockage. The 25mm lens is bigger than the 28mm lens, and the 25mm field of view is wider; ergo, there would be viewfinder blockage.
Do you wear glasses? If so, you probably will have trouble seeing the edges of even the 28mm framelines, and would probably want an external finder for anything wider, whether 25mm or 21mm.
Are you going to buy Zeiss lenses? If so, the 25mm is supposedly better than the 28mm. I've used the 28mm and it's good, but the 25mm is supposed to be wonderful. On the other hand, the 21mm f4.5 also is supposed to be wonderful. I think you might be okay starting with the 35mm and/or the 50mm and then seeing how much wider you need to go and what maximum aperture you need.
Feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions about either the ZI or the lenses. I've used the 35mm, the 50mm and the 28mm. I've drooled over the 21mm f4.5 for years.
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I've used this camera and lens combo quite a bit without the auxiliary viewfinder. I use the entire viewfinder for framing. I think it's a very close approximation and probably was among the first to suggest doing this.
For precise framing, you probably would want to use the auxiliary viewfinder. But for most shooting, I think that the camera's viewfinder works well.
Thanks for the reply. I hate to have to use more than 1 external finder. It’s just something else to lose or have to replace when changing lenses. Also, these items are not cheap ($419 new). I was thinking of starting at the wider end and getting the new bundled kit of the body, 18mm lens, finder, and shade. The other lenses would be picked up used. It appears I would save around $500 compared to the separate items purchased new and get a 1-year warranty on the body.
It would be nice if the retailers read these threads and contacted people with offers. I’m planning a major photo trip and I need all the savings I can achieve. I’d rather spend my time in the darkroom than searching for the best deal.
The M8 has a frame for 25mm, if you get the 25, CV in LTM it comes with a free finder, the M CV does not inckude a finder, neither lens blocks the ZM camera finder if you use the standard supplied hood, a LH1 (monster) hood would be a different matter.
It really depends on whether you wear glasses. I do and I have the ZI, but no 25 mm lens. But I *can* tell you that for me, a 25 mm would not work using the internal finder.
The 28 framelines are perfectly usable, much better than e.g. on an 0.72x M7. e.g. But outside of them, I can not make out much without shifting my eye around...
The Zeiss 21mm finder is worth every penny. I got mine for about $250 USD. It is flawless and probably the best 21mm finder.
Fake Edit: Isn't Cosina Voigtlander coming out with a new duel 21/25 finder?
I have changed my password and changed my email to a random email. This is forum seppuku. Good bye!