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  1. #1
    lilmsmaggie's Avatar
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    RF Pains and Impressions

    After acquiring a used 250th Anniversary Bessa R3M with Heliar 50mm f2 lens, and shooting with it a bit (almost two rolls), I'm a bit frustrated. Maybe its just getting used to this cameras metering and RF patch. I've realized that the feeling I'm having shooting with this camera is a bit like I felt shooting with my first SLR - a Minolta SRT101.

    The 50mm framelines depending on the light can be a bit difficult to see at times but by far, the most troublesome part is the focusing patch and the metering.

    My approach was to shoot in Aperture Mode. This requires fussing with the shutted speed dial if the meter indicates over/under exposure.

    The first day, with a Roll of FP4+ loaded, I parked myself on a bench and chose a subject area framed on either side by trees and a bit of branch overhang. This created a nice open area perfect for 50mm framelines to setup a shot. Overhead clouds would cause meter reading fluctuations of about plus or minus 1-2 stops. A few times I could get the meter to zero out or not flash but more of the time it was fiddling with the shutter speed dial.

    The second day was out in the open with Delta 400 loaded, walking about then stopping here and there to attempt to get a shot.

    Sometimes I saw the Focusing patch sometimes I couldn't. Depending on the light, the subject and where I happened to be pointing the camera, it was difficult to see if focus was in or out.

    I figure I missed about a half dozen possible shots due to fiddling and trying to get a meter reading that was not too over/under exposed, and aligning the focus patch. Stationary subjects obviously are easy to shoot because I have the time to make the requisite adjustments but subjects that are of a more transient nature have proven to be quite challenging.

    Is it just me, or is this a RF shooter's right of passage
    Last edited by lilmsmaggie; 11-05-2010 at 05:26 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #2
    MaximusM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilmsmaggie View Post
    After acquiring a used 250th Anniversary Bessa R3M with Heliar 50mm f2 lens, and shooting with it a bit (almost two rolls), I'm a bit frustrated. Maybe its just getting used to this cameras metering and RF patch. I've realized that the feeling I'm having shooting with this camera is a bit like I felt shooting with my first SLR - a Minolta SRT101.

    The 50mm framelines depending on the light can be a bit difficult to see at times but by far, the most troublesome part is the focusing patch and the metering.

    My approach was to shoot in Aperture Mode. This requires fussing with the shutted speed dial if the meter indicates over/under exposure.

    The first day, with a Roll of FP4+ loaded, I parked myself on a bench and chose a subject area framed on either side by trees and a bit of branch overhang. This created a nice open area perfect for 50mm framelines to setup a shot. Overhead clouds would cause meter reading fluctuations of about plus or minus 1-2 stops. A few times I could get the meter to zero out or not flash but more of the time it was fiddling with the shutter speed dial.

    The second day was out in the open with Delta 400 loaded, walking about then stopping here and there to attempt to get a shot.

    Sometimes I saw the Focusing patch sometimes I couldn't. Depending on the light, the subject and where I happened to be pointing the camera, it was difficult to see if focus was in or out.

    I figure I missed about a half dozen possible shots due to fiddling and trying to get a meter reading that was not too over/under exposed, and aligning the focus patch. Stationary subjects obviously are easy to shoot because I have the time to make the requisite adjustments but subjects that are of a more transient nature have proven to be quite challenging.

    Is it just me, or is this a RF shooter's right of passage
    Don't have experience with your camera but, it is a bit of a cross to bear with RF and that's why I shoot with an M3. To this day, and 50+ years after that camera hit the market, still have to find a RF with a better, brighter, larger, and flare-free (or extremely close to it) finder, and that includes every other incarnation of the M line. The 50mm frame line on the M3 are unbeatable and so are the 90 and 135 (assuming the camera is in decent shape).

    Good luck!

    Max

  3. #3
    d.sge's Avatar
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    You may want to make sure your eye is centered over the rf patch when focusing. Just move the position of your eye around until you find the sweet spot. The Bessas aren't particularly forgiving in this regard, but they are nice and contrasty.

    As for metering issues, it's really just a matter of knowing your exposure. It takes time. If it helps, here's the Bessa's apparent metering pattern courtesy of Camera Quest: http://www.cameraquest.com/jpg6/Bessa-R%20meter.jpg If you're framing a scene that has the sun in say, "-4 and -5 LV," then you recompose to where the sun is now in "-2 and -3 LV," then yeah, you're going to have a different meter reading, even though the shadows probably remain the same. That has nothing to do with rangefinders though. It's the center-weighted metering pattern. Having been an owner of the SR-T 102 myself, there isn't much of a difference between the two.

    If you stick with the R3M, have fun tinkering, and "waste" a few rolls of film learning how the meter works, you'll probably catch on pretty fast. If you're more comfortable with aperture priority and want to stick with rangefinders, an R3A (or similar aperture priority camera) might be a more complementary option for you.
    Daniel.

  4. #4

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    I always say that not everyone will enjoy using a rangefinder. It's a different approach, for sure, and moving from an SLR to a rangefinder in many ways is more difficult than the other way around.

  5. #5
    lns
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.sge View Post
    You may want to make sure your eye is centered over the rf patch when focusing. Just move the position of your eye around until you find the sweet spot. The Bessas aren't particularly forgiving in this regard, but they are nice and contrasty....
    I've never used this camera, but I second this advice because with any rangefinder if you move your eye around you can blank out the patch. Also, be careful how you hold the camera. I find a stray finger around the front can rest on the little window (not the viewfinder) that lets in the light for the framelines. When that happens, you can't see the patch or the framelines properly.

    Yes, it takes time to learn how to focus on moving objects -- you have to pre-focus and anticipate, or use a large depth of field and zone focus. Just generally, it may help to practice focusing and shooting with no film loaded. But it's not a camera for every situation, and you may find it's not a camera for you. At least you tried something different, which keeps things interesting.

    -Laura

  6. #6
    lilmsmaggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.sge View Post
    You may want to make sure your eye is centered over the rf patch when focusing. Just move the position of your eye around until you find the sweet spot. The Bessas aren't particularly forgiving in this regard, but they are nice and contrasty. If you stick with the R3M, have fun tinkering, and "waste" a few rolls of film learning how the meter works, you'll probably catch on pretty fast. If you're more comfortable with aperture priority and want to stick with rangefinders, an R3A (or similar aperture priority camera) might be a more complementary option for you.
    Yep - I noticed that. At times I was expecting the patch to be dead center and it would be at 12 o'clock. And I'd find myself saying "how the heck did that get up there?" Have been toying with the idea of going with a used R3A or ZI but I figure I need to tame the beast.

    Just generally, it may help to practice focusing and shooting with no film loaded. But it's not a camera for every situation, and you may find it's not a camera for you. At least you tried something different, which keeps things interesting.
    Don't count me out just yet. I don't quit that easy Although I have to admit, I can squeeze off several frames with my Minolta X-700, or Canon ELAN 7E set to AE mode in the time it takes me to shoot one frame with the Bessa. And when I first went from 35mm to 4x5, I didn't have near as much trouble as I thought I would with the exception of forgetting to do silly things like cocking the shutter, or removing the dark slide
    Last edited by lilmsmaggie; 11-05-2010 at 09:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #7

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    I had a simple rangefinder years ago -- a little Konica C35 Automatic. Because it was an inexpensive fixed-lens camera, I think that it didn't felt intimidating. Plus, I didn't know that much about photography, and at that time there wasn't this aura that surrounds rangefinders today.

    Anyway, before I loaded any film, I spent a lot of time just getting comfortable with it. I then loaded it with some color print film and shot with it a lot over the next few weeks.

    After selling it in 1979, I didn't touch a rangefinder until 2000 when I bought the Cosina Voigtlander Bessa-R. It took me only a few days to reacquaint myself with shooting with a rangefinder.

    And like the others said, eye placement is important. Shoot some more film, and see how it works.

    If you're coming over from autofocus, a rangefinder is a much different experience. It forces you to slow down. On the other hand, it's not the best tool for fast-moving subjects and shooting wide open. Nor is it the best tool for macro.

  8. #8
    lilmsmaggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elekm View Post
    If you're coming over from autofocus, a rangefinder is a much different experience. It forces you to slow down. On the other hand, it's not the best tool for fast-moving subjects and shooting wide open. Nor is it the best tool for macro.
    While the Canon ELAN 7E is capable of using auto focus, I don't use it. The Minolta X-700 is strictly manual focus. The only time I use auto focus is with my Canon S90 but when shooting film I prefer to dial in the focus manually.

  9. #9
    David William White's Avatar
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    Let's back up a bit, maybe this will help:

    There are three distinct steps involved in taking a picture (RF, SLF, whatever):

    1) Find an exposure -- this means pointing your center-weighted meter at something middle grey in the scene, or even the grass at your feet. Dial in your aperture & shutter speed to match. You may not be pointing at your subject.

    2) Find your range -- recomposing to put the patch on the item of interest. Can be skipped if you are hyperfocal ranging or scale focusing, but I'm assuming you're 'on the patch'.

    3) Final scene recomposition -- for spatials.

    In general, you've pointed your camera three times. You may think I'm nuts, but think about the three separate steps.

    It is kind of busy doing all three at the same time, but that's regardless of camera.

    RF's seem to excel at quick street action shooting, where you are probably set for sunny 16 (or whatever is appropriate), and with wider lenses you're probably doing hyperfocal. What gives them the edge over TLR's or SLR's for street is quick composition with right eye while left eye is kept open. This is especially true of the R3m which has the wonderful 1:1 viewfinder. I've got the R3a, but mostly use it on manual, and dearly enjoy it.

    Hope that helps!
    Considerably AWOL at the present time...

    Archive/Blog: http://davidwilliamwhite.blogspot.com

  10. #10

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    Building on the good doctor's commentary, the 'all three at the same time' is a key concept. Basically it is hard to do even two of anything at one time, so it makes sense to preset the most controllable variables and then adjust for the least controllable at the time you are releasing the shutter.

    Unless you are shooting a landscape, the least controllable variable is the scene composition. So anything you can do to preset exposure and range will be key to success. For instance, if the day is predominantly 'weak/hazy sun' with occasional moments when a passing cloud creates a 'cloudy bright' situation, then you could just set the aperture and shutter for hazy sun and your exposure would be all set for most exposures. If you observe that the conditions have changed to cloudy bright just as you see a picture, then just click open one stop and fire away, regardless of what the meter arrows are telling you.

    For focus, unless you are shooting in a club at night, you are probably shooting at f/8 to f/16. At f/8 you will have something like sharp focus from 1.7 to 2.5 meters at a focus point of 2 meters with a 50mm lens. That is something like a yard of DOF to play with. Even with moving kids you will be able to keep them in the zone of focus most of the time. If you sense that they are towards the front or the back of the zone then you can tweak the focus lever a few degrees. Before being faced with the photo opportunity, take a minute to see how many degrees of lens rotation will move the point of focus from say, 2 meters to 2.5. Train your fingers to move the focus lever just that far. If you are trying to get the rangefinder patch perfectly lined up on a kid's eye while he is swinging from the jungle gym, then failure is assured. Better to pick the zone of focus and work within it.

    All of the above requires preplanning and anticipation. Success comes when the focus and exposure variables are minimized or eliminated, and you are left only with the matter of reacting to the composition within the viewfinder. And here, in the opinion of your humble narrator, is where rangefinder magic comes into play. To me, the crystal clear view of the world through the RF window, with framelines hanging in the middle of it, allows much more confident reaction to and/or planning of composition than the tunnel vision effect that you get with an SLR. Once you get to this point, then the wonky RF patch and the alarming exposure diodes will not distract you, and you will be that much closer to achieving RF nirvana.

    (PS: Narrow technical point - you mention that
    ...My approach was to shoot in Aperture Mode. This requires fussing with the shutted speed dial if the meter indicates over/under exposure.
    I am not a Bessaphile, but usually if you are in Aperture Mode, then you pick the aperture setting and the camera takes care of fussing with the shutter speeds! If you are fussing too, then it may be compounding your problems. Only in Manual mode would you leave the aperture at a certain setting and then saw away at the shutter speed dial until the meter arrows behave themselves. Are you with me here?)

    Well, these are just the ravings of a madman with a Fed and a 50mm brightline finder. Don't take me too seriously!

    Best,
    Jon


    Quote Originally Posted by David William White View Post
    ...There are three distinct steps involved in taking a picture (RF, SLF, whatever):

    1) Find an exposure
    2) Find your range --
    3) Final scene recomposition -- for spatials.

    In general, you've pointed your camera three times. You may think I'm nuts, but think about the three separate steps.

    It is kind of busy doing all three at the same time, but that's regardless of camera.

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