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  1. #121
    Rol_Lei Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by softshock View Post
    I have yet to get that Zeiss, instead using FSU glass. I must say the Jupiter 8 & 3 please me very much.
    Well, be happy: the Jupiters *are* Zeiss lenses, albeit 1930's designs, slightly tweaked to better support lower production tollerances.

    They do show how good Zeiss designs were already in the 1930's...

    Leica, for many of their lenses, didn't catch up to Zeiss until at least the 1980's (or even, arguably, not yet, depending on what you consider important in lens performance).
    M6, SL, SL2, R5, P6x7, SL3003, SL35-E, F, F2, FM, FE-2, Varex IIa

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rol_Lei Nut View Post
    Leica, for many of their lenses, didn't catch up to Zeiss until at least the 1980's (or even, arguably, not yet, depending on what you consider important in lens performance).
    Well the ZM lenses are cheaper, but the CV lenses are cheaper again.
    If you are not going to notice the difference in optical performance...

    HCB used a Zeiss lens on his Leica until the type I cron appeared, so he then prefered Leitz over Zeiss for an interval?

    Noel

  3. #123
    Rol_Lei Nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    Well the ZM lenses are cheaper, but the CV lenses are cheaper again.
    If you are not going to notice the difference in optical performance...

    Noel
    While the differences between Leica and Zeiss ZM lenses can certainly be argued on a case by case basis, CV lenses, while generally good and being good value, are clearly behind ZMs and more recent Leica lenses (unless you consider lenses which the others don't have, like the 12mm & 15mm).

    I have the CV 15 & 21mm, and after having tried out the ZM 21mm f/4.5, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I can get a reasonably priced one...
    In short, the difference in optical performance *is* very noticeable.
    M6, SL, SL2, R5, P6x7, SL3003, SL35-E, F, F2, FM, FE-2, Varex IIa

  4. #124

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    Hi

    I'm sure there is a difference, but I dont detect it hand held 1/125 with 400 ISO mono at /5.6 or smaller. My mates who borrow my lenses in coffee shops, and pixel peep wide open with M8 and M9 can detect differences, e.g. between my CV 25mm and ZM 25mm.

    But the ZM is big and nearly as heavy as two CV in the bag. Dont carry it often.

    Noel

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    Hi

    I'm sure there is a difference, but I dont detect it hand held 1/125 with 400 ISO mono at /5.6 or smaller. My mates who borrow my lenses in coffee shops, and pixel peep wide open with M8 and M9 can detect differences, e.g. between my CV 25mm and ZM 25mm.
    That will be due to the pixel producing device.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    That will be due to the pixel producing device.
    Yes probably the CV focus is not as flat as the ZM, and the micro lenses are more sensitive to this, but they are also shooting with elbows on coffee table.

    I have to carry them around all day, weight is important, effective resolution, if it is not detectable less so.

    Depends if your shooting is 'brick walls' or not.

    Noel

  7. #127

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    And the dumbing down/soft focus filter, a.k.a. anti alias filter, will have kicked in Big Time.

  8. #128
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    My first and 2nd Leicas

    Well my first Leica was a functional, but well worn, M3 Double Stroke user, the 2nd was a n M2 loaner. I had come from Olympus OM-1, OM-2, and thought that I would be achieving some kind of photographic nirvana. Well, I quickly found that my Olympus blue tinge disappeared, and my handheld photos at 1/15, and 1/30 improved in sharpness. The OM-1 is already quiet, but the M3 was noticeably quieter. The perceived need for higher quality, sharper negs eventually lead me to larger format cameras, including a Razzle. What I can say about the Leicas is that the build quality was outstanding, but the images were no better than the best from my Olympus days, just a bit different. I am admittedly turned off of the Leica thing by how many dentists and chiropractors own Leicas as jewelry, for that must be what they are as their photos are without doubt some of the worst I've ever seen. Actually, to be honest about it, I see more crap photos from the average Leica user (I suppose collector might be a better word), than I do from the average Nikon F2 or Pentax LX user. Not sure exactly why that is though.
    Last edited by dhosten; 01-08-2011 at 11:17 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: added M2 info

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilmsmaggie View Post
    IMHO, collectors are making a mess of the used camera market. Especially when it comes to Leica's. I guess I just don't understand. Wouldn't a Zeiss Ikon ZI fit the bill just as much as a M3 or M4? Does it have to be a Leica, and do you have to give up an arm and a leg, mortgage the farm and relinquish your 1st born to pay for it?
    No offence, but the above indicates you do not understand the Leica market, which is composed of collectors and photographers. Collectors pay high prices for special editions and used rare versions in collectable condition. Photographers are the ones buying used and useable Leica's, as well as buying new also.

    Both operate with quite different budgets and with different needs, and are quite different elements of the market.

    Is there something special about a Leica? As with every camera, I say handle and shoot it, and you tell me. We all choose our own tools, and there's quite a lot of people out there photographing with Leica's.

    Would a Zeiss Ikon or other camera replace an M3 or M4? No, not for me. Both my M3 and M4 are about 40 years old, and if I was a betting man I know where I would be putting my money in punting on which will survive another 40. The concept of electronics and longevity do not convince me. Now quality mechanics..

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienm View Post
    No offence, but the above indicates you do not understand the Leica market, which is composed of collectors and photographers. Collectors pay high prices for special editions and used rare versions in collectable condition. Photographers are the ones buying used and useable Leica's, as well as buying new also.
    Au contrair, mon ami! I and many others know all too well the market forces at play with Leica cameras old and new; and many here have deftly identified in their comments those forces.

    Leica has astutely taken advantage of their legendary status and supply and demand.

    The same forces are at play with the recent announcement by Cosina that they have discontinued their Voightlander Nokton 35mm f1.2 Aspherical lens, which has driven the price up for remaining stock from $899 to $1199. Once existing stock is sold, its a very good bet that these lenses, which have already acquired a cult following will continue to demand premium prices.

    No, CV lenses are not Leica lenses but they hold their own in terms of image and build quality.



 

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