Having a hard time understanding the Leica Mystique - aka Astronomical Prices

[blockend]

But most cameras will have been neglected, and subject to kitchen knife maintenance.

Noel

That's undoubtedly true, however my uncle went on holiday behind the iron curtain in the early 70s and brought back a few Zorkis and Feds with an idea to sell them on back home. He gave me them unopened for my 'expert' opinion and they were astonishingly rough out of the box. Whether that was because they were intended for domestic consumption in the eastern bloc rather than export models who can say but the ones I used felt beyond bad.

I'd happily use one that had been breathed on by an enthusiast and the designs are perfectly sound but my impression was the quality control must have been non-existent.

[Rol_Lei Nut]

I'd happily use one that had been breathed on by an enthusiast and the designs are perfectly sound but my impression was the quality control must have been non-existent.

Quality control *was* largely inexistant.

But a decent FSU camera, especially if from good years (say, pre-1970) and properly CLA'd, can be a very nice, smooth and even reliable creature.
More or less comparable to a Leica which is about to need a CLA...

The main reason I rarely use the FSU cameras I have isn't their intrinsic quality or even their lenses, just that my Leica M6 has:
1) a built in light meter (yes, some snobs only use external ones, but the M6 one is quite good)
2) framelines for various focal lengths
3) a bayonet mount.

But every time I pick up a Zorki 3, I wonder why I don't use it more often....

If one only uses a 50mm and doesn't want a built-in light meter, then the argument for using a good FSU camera can be quite compelling.

[jglass]

. . . you saved me a lot of work and said it all better than I would have. Spot on with every point regarding 2f/2f's comments.

Interesting how the Leica produces more heat than light in comments from detractors as much as from the blind followers of the mystique.

Your point about zero cost of ownership is particularly well-taken.

[stevebrot]

. . . you saved me a lot of work and said it all better than I would have. Spot on with every point regarding 2f/2f's comments.

Interesting how the Leica produces more heat than light in comments from detractors as much as from the blind followers of the mystique.

Your point about zero cost of ownership is particularly well-taken.

It might be interesting to point out that the OP for this thread is now a proud owner of an M5. Not the most treasured Leica, but still a nice piece of kit. So apparently the price/value plot must have met his sweet point.

As for me, I don't know that I have ever touched a Leica. As a result, I am quite thrilled with my Canon P and have fun with my Zorki 4K, FED-2, and Kiev 4A. (Yes, I have all three...it is a long story...) The FSU cams are great in their own way and I have no complaints about the optics (Helios 103, Jupiter-8, and Jupiter-12 with all but the Helios in both mounts) except for a lemon Industar 61 that was attached to the FED.

I agree that the prices on the FSU stuff is getting way out of control, though. Better to get a Japanese fixed lens rangefinder if you want value.


Steve

[lilmsmaggie]

It might be interesting to point out that the OP for this thread is now a proud owner of an M5. Not the most treasured Leica, but still a nice piece of kit. So apparently the price/value plot must have met his sweet point.

Absolutely, positively! -- less than $1700 I'd say that was SWEET indeed

[T42]

. . . you saved me a lot of work and said it all better than I would have. Spot on with every point regarding 2f/2f's comments.

Glad to help. I'm pleased to know how that my thinking is not alone and in a vacuum on that issue. Thanks for the support and the comments.

Interesting how the Leica produces more heat than light in comments from detractors as much as from the blind followers of the mystique.

I wonder why it is. I have seen it before. Most people I know who have used an M long enough for it to become second nature really love using it.

Your point about zero cost of ownership is particularly well-taken.

People who think Leica is absurdly priced should pay more attention to that point, IMO. So many folks confuse initial purchase price with total cost of ownership. Totally different things when something holds its value like a Leica.

Very pleased to meet you.

[blockend]

I agree that the prices on the FSU stuff is getting way out of control, though. Better to get a Japanese fixed lens rangefinder if you want value.

Steve

That's the conclusion I reached. I'd quite like a commiecam and the Kiev in particular is a lovely looking piece of optical machinery, but my Yashica ticks most of the retro rangefinder boxes and gives my Nikon primes a run for their money without sounding like a film sprocket shredding device or that it might be about to explode if you wind on another frame.

Maybe that's why some people buy Leica bodies and put Russian lenses on - all the smoothness with none of the expensive glassware.

[michaelbsc]

I agree that the prices on the FSU stuff is getting way out of control, though. Better to get a Japanese fixed lens rangefinder if you want value.



Steve

That\'s the conclusion I reached. I\'d quite like a commiecam and the Kiev in particular is a lovely looking piece of optical machinery, but my Yashica ticks most of the retro rangefinder boxes and gives my Nikon primes a run for their money without sounding like a film sprocket shredding device or that it might be about to explode if you wind on another frame.



Maybe that\'s why some people buy Leica bodies and put Russian lenses on - all the smoothness with none of the expensive glassware.

Who does a good job of correcting the problems with the difference in the focus helix pitch between the FSU and Leica lenses?

[chriscrawfordphoto]

Who does a good job of correcting the problems with the difference in the focus helix pitch between the FSU and Leica lenses?

No one does. There is no fix. The lenses are simply incompatible, and those who claim to like FSU lenses are either too blind to see out of focus images for what they are or willing to accept low quality images to save money. I've tried several FSU lenses and tried to like them but the fact is that they don't focus accurately at all distances. You can have them adjusted for close up accuracy, but at further distances they front focus. There are plenty of lenses made with the correct focus pitch that are cheap, like old canon rangefinder lenses and new Voigtlanders. They are much better choices.

[michaelbsc]

No one does. There is no fix. The lenses are simply incompatible, and those who claim to like FSU lenses are either too blind to see out of focus images for what they are or willing to accept low quality images to save money. I've tried several FSU lenses and tried to like them but the fact is that they don't focus accurately at all distances. You can have them adjusted for close up accuracy, but at further distances they front focus. There are plenty of lenses made with the correct focus pitch that are cheap, like old canon rangefinder lenses and new Voigtlanders. They are much better choices.

Too bad. The glass is actually pretty decent on an FSU body. And I can see how it could be done looking at one, but man would it be a lot of work to get it right.

I may discount a lot of my labor time for a hobby, but not that much. Especially if a new Voigtlander is affordable.