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  1. #171

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    I pick up one time and reside how great it was and some of the pictures it took.

    Jeff

  2. #172
    d_c
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    One thing that I think a number of people have overlooked is how relatively low Leica's production totals still are, with waiting lists at many dealers for the more popular new lenses. Also, now that the M-mount is no longer protected by patent, there are other manufacturers producing less expensive M-mount bodies and lenses - both film and digital, which have expanded dramatically the number of users with an investment in rangefinders. These factors have both driven up the prices of good condition equipment, particularly for secondhand equipment.

  3. #173
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    Hm, dunno. Mine are a black 1932 Leica II (recently serviced, said the previous owner), a black 1955 Leica M3 DS and a chrome 1963 Leica M2 that has been the workhorse for a German press photographer since day one. Looks like it was dragged by the bus.

    All of them can still be serviced and all of them work smoothly and trustworthy. Three bodies together were under EUR 1250.

    And yes I have invested quite some money in lenses for them, spent in the last six years. But I'm guessing that modern DLSR shooters likely have invested just as much money over a period of six years, and what have they got to show for it?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Johan Niels Kuiper, www.johanniels.com

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilmsmaggie View Post
    I recently came across a M4-P 70th Anniversary 1913-1918, body only. No box, no instruction manual. I have to admit, a very nice camera. But the price!! Clearly, the price tag had collectors in mind. The same week, I came across an eBay listing for a plain-jane M4. Nice camera, except the leather on the back near the film indicator had worn through. Price: $1800 for a 40-year old camera!


    IMHO, collectors are making a mess of the used camera market. Especially when it comes to Leica's. I guess I just don't understand. Wouldn't a Zeiss Ikon ZI fit the bill just as much as a M3 or M4? Does it have to be a Leica, and do you have to give up an arm and a leg, mortgage the farm and relinquish your 1st born to pay for it?
    Owning a Leica camera doesn't require spending $10,000 or more.

    If you really want a Leica, there are many camera bodies that can be bought in the $1000 to $1500 range. As for lenses, I have seen 50mm Leica M lenses for sale in the $500 to $1000 range and 28mm lenses around $900. Yes, we are talking used equipment -but not trashed used equipment. You just have to know where to look, that's all.

    Many people would not give a second thought to spending $1500-2000 for a digital camera and lens. You can get a starter Leica M rangefinder and lens for that same amount.

    Yes, the original MP sells for godawful prices. I know where there's one for sale at $28,000. There were less than 400 of the original MP built, making it an item for the mega rich collector or a museum piece - not a camera to hit the streets with (although you could).

    Learn the used market. Get a nice used Leica M with a 50mm and maybe a 35mm or a 28mm. This is all you truly need.

    The digital "revolution" has absolutely killed the value of used cameras - in every format. Leica cameras and lenses have retained their value and have been pretty much unaffected by the digital tsunami. Leicas are about the only cameras and lenses you can buy with the knowledge that down the road, you will be able to sell them and break even rather than lose money - even if you buy new.

    Does this make investing in Leica cameras and lenses a fool's errand? I think not.

    Just the opposite, in fact. YMMV.
    "My idea of a good life is that I wake up in the morning, go out and look around and make four rolls of film a day." - Josef Koudelka

    "There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are." - Ernst Haas

    "Nothing happens when you sit at home. I always make it a point to carry a camera with me at all times…I just shoot at what interests me at that moment." – Elliott Erwitt

  5. #175
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    I don't understand people who say they can't understand why people buy Leicas when Canonets take almost as technically good pictures. To them I ask: why do people buy cars more expensive than the cheapest brand and model available, when it too will get them from point A to B? Same thing with any consumer goods: why buy anything but the cheapest, if it does the job?

    The sentiment in the original post is an example of reverse snobbery.
    My blog / photo website: http://frankfoto.jimdo.com/

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank View Post
    I don't understand people who say they can't understand why people buy Leicas when Canonets take almost as technically good pictures. To them I ask: why do people buy cars more expensive than the cheapest brand and model available, when it too will get them from point A to B? Same thing with any consumer goods: why buy anything but the cheapest, if it does the job?
    And, what are your answers to these questions?

  7. #177
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    Value is a function of cost and quality. The cheapest item is not always/ often not the best Value.

    This discussion is muddied and confused by the fact that there is more than one motivator in play for different people, and sometimes there is a bit of overlap.

    Some buy expensive items because the collector market, based on rarity, dictates high prices. A collector desires to posses such items, for investment and/or it makes them feel good/powerful to possess stuff that not everyone else can. Check out this expensive Canon camera: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Canon-F1-Olym...4#ht_500wt_689

    Some buyers of expensive items buy because the items are built to a higher degree of quality in engineering/design and materials. These people use the items and want the best tools they can afford. Think of chefs and their knives, just to give an example outside of photography.

    Then there is the group that gives everyone else a bad name. The ostentatious buyers, who buy and flaunt expensive goods to compensate for personal insecurities.

    It is incorrect And simple-minded to lump them all together and paint them with the same brush. This is my opinion.
    Last edited by frank; 11-27-2011 at 09:01 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    My blog / photo website: http://frankfoto.jimdo.com/

  8. #178
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    It's no different in the fine art world. If the one that took the print is as reputable as the name Leica, no matter how simplistic looking the print might be, it will demand large sums of money.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by gb hill View Post
    It's no different in the fine art world. If the one that took the print is as reputable as the name Leica, no matter how simplistic looking the print might be, it will demand large sums of money.
    The art world - there's a whole 'nother can of worms.
    My blog / photo website: http://frankfoto.jimdo.com/

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank View Post
    The art world - there's a whole 'nother can of worms.
    Worms? How about maggots??
    "My idea of a good life is that I wake up in the morning, go out and look around and make four rolls of film a day." - Josef Koudelka

    "There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are." - Ernst Haas

    "Nothing happens when you sit at home. I always make it a point to carry a camera with me at all times…I just shoot at what interests me at that moment." – Elliott Erwitt



 

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