My father spent two years in the Burmese jungle fighting the Japanese, and fought the German Army from D Day to the end of the war when he ended it in Lübeck in North Germany and I never heard him use the term "Jap" or "Kraut" and although he wasn't a professional soldier he always said what good soldiers they were and he respected their courage even when faced with overwhelming odds.
Last edited by benjiboy; 08-14-2011 at 10:14 AM. Click to view previous post history.
Something to read, for Umut and everyone who haven't came across this article..
LEITZ INVESTIGATED BY BRITISH INTELLIGENCE 1946 -
After WWII the Americans & British sent a team into the Leitz factory in Wetzlar to examine construction techniques of the Leica camera. The British party took away the Leica IIIb drawings & then produced the Reid camera to that design. Taylor Hobson manufactured the lenses and Sigrist & Reid the body. This is the account of their findings. :
The company was called Reid & Sigrist not the other way round,they were an engineering and aircraft manufacturer in Desford Leicestershire England unfortunately I'm old enough to remember, the British Government imported Leica cameras from A Swedish export company who bought them from Germany,the British built three very fast unarmed speedboats especial for the purpose of collecting them from Sweden and beating the German naval blockade.
Originally Posted by georg16nik
Last edited by benjiboy; 08-14-2011 at 12:31 PM. Click to view previous post history.
Not an expert but I suppose that industrial "espionage", patent circumventing, and even ignoring on patents (from countries which did not belong to exchange treaties that force patent observation) were going on since before WW II.
Good engineers can easily buy some copies (of Leica cameras, BMW motorcycles, etc.) and "reverse engineer" them. "Design" is not so difficult to copy. Quality is another matter, especially in countries, like the USSR, where "elitist" production was not welcome and everything had to be build with reasonable "affordability". I don't doubt the Soviet, or the Japanese, had any difficulty in building cameras like the Leica and with the same quality.
The Japanese probably didn't try the adventure for commercial reasons, or just tried and failed, because people buy "names" not just "products" and it's not easy to establish yourself in the Leica market where Leica already has the fame and charm.
I think the "made in Germany" badge meant a lot in commerce then as now. It was, and it is, very difficult to establish yourself as a credible mechanical watchmaker if you are not Swiss. Prejudice makes the world go round...
The Soviet, for different reasons, did not try because it probably would have been politically unacceptable. I can visualize (maybe a fantasy of mine) an engineer presenting a project of high-quality high-cost professional tool being welcome by all the firm and vetoed by the people's commissar embedded in the factory observing that it might lead to firm to a decadent elitist production and away from the Party recommendation of building cameras "for the people", blah blah blah.
Where affordability is the first "ideological" must, quality must suffer.
My understanding from my military history classes was that Germany shared with Japan the formula for their optical glass. The Japanese could make decent lenses but their glass quality was lacking. The principal reason for this sharing was for submarine periscope lenses and mirrors. The Japanese were in an active war before most countries and therefore industrial development of such items as photography equipment was based on military needs and wants so there were few civilian cameras of quality prior to the end of WWII from Japan. During the occupation, the US involvement in development of the Japanese industrial complex was to help in setting priorities for improving overall economic development and broadest use of the limited resources. An example would be to prioritize steel production and distribution for the creation of infrastructure and buildings over automobiles, cameras, etc. While likely there were individual companies with political clout that could get favorable results over the competition, it was not the stated goal of the administration to prefer one company over another.
The General had seen what the Allies did to Germany and had the lessons from WWI under his belt and was determined that Japan would suffer the same fate and leave open the possibility of long term hatreds between the peoples.
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During WWl, there were sharing of info between Russia and Germany as well. Not only Germany and Japan..
Japan have always had problems with glass, one thing is to have the formula for the glass.. completely different is to have the glass as a nature resource and to be top grade.. Even the Germans had problems with that, at times.
In Russia, they have enormous resources of top quality glass and earth resources, most countries dream to possess.
That might be one of the reasons, the russians are depicted in the west as bad..
The early japanese lenses, they had to descend them in sets at the bottom of the sea in order to test them for cracks and such defects..
So the ones that survived the tests were let to be used for lenses.
There is one company that goes by the name Vixen that makes something unique but in the field of telescopes (they make good binoculars and spotting scopes.. as well)
They make 8 inch aperture modified Sixth-Order Aspheric Cassegrain (VISAC) that is based on a Cassegrain design with a "sixth order aspheric" primary mirror like a hyperbolic mirror but able to be manufactured using mass-production techniques. To compensate for the aberrations the mirror design introduces, a "field corrector lens" - actually a three element corrector in the draw tube of the focuser which also reduces field curvature for wide field applications. The design results in an image that is free of coma and astigmatism.
Also, this design is unusual in that it is a Cassegrain design that has a fixed primary and refractor style rack and pinion focuser which removes the image shift issues seen with other catadioptric designs.
Those features make for a telescope that is very well suited to astrophotography either at the native f/9 or using the optional focal reducer at around f/6.3.
I find this hard to believe, as Germany and Russia were enemies during WWI, and Germany and the Soviet Union were enemies for most of WWII, and not so friendly after all during the less than two years of war in which they were not enemies (September 1939 - June 1941). (I mention WWII in case your mention of WWI was a typographic error).
Originally Posted by georg16nik
Last edited by Diapositivo; 08-14-2011 at 03:05 PM. Click to view previous post history.
On March 3, 1918 The Bolsheviks reached a peace treaty with Germany, the peace of Brest-Litovsk.
For a short period of time as a sign of good will, there was exchanges between Russia and Germany.
The end was still far away... the treaty of Versailles signed on 28 June 1919.
I didn't know about this technological exchange, was it, itself, part of the treaty? I say this as I don't think, ideologically speaking, the new regime would appeal much as an allied to Imperial Germany and so both parties would be more interested in reciprocal compensations rather than in long-term friendly relationship.
It seems that Germany denounced the treaty already in November 5, 1918 (the Emperor had just de facto fallen I suppose) so its effects ceased much before the Treaty of Versailles. But as far as the exchange of information for optics making is concerned, it was easily sufficient.
Fabrizio, to step even further, the second treaty was signed guess where?
In the Italian town of Rapallo on April 16, 1922 between Germany's Weimar Republic and Bolshevist Russia under which each renounced all territorial and financial claims against the other (following the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk and World War I).
Now back to the Versailles Treaty in 1919.. one of the major goals of the Versailles Treaty was to suppress Germany from development of technical equipment that could be used for military purposes..
So, the Versailles treaty 1919 had stripped Germany of an Air Force, Navy and most of its Army. Naturally in 1922 the Treaty of Rapallo inspired the birth of widely used glider clubs training a nucleus of clandestine air force pilots. These pilots had to be trained at some point on real powered aircraft which took place at secret locations in the Soviet Union...
It is interesting to note that the Germans were also the first to use Gliders in Warfare, most famously during the assault of the Eben Emael fortress on the 10th May 1940.
So, back to photography stuff .. after the spring of 1922, between Leitz from the German side and GOZ (State optical factory) from Russia side, there was cooperation (VOOMP camera). In 1932 GOZ takes the name GOMZ/OGPU, in 1934 OGPU becomes NKVD...(later KGB)
Around the lines is the FED NKVD camera.