Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,933   Posts: 1,557,007   Online: 1186
      
Page 1 of 10 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 96
  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada. Ex-California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    346

    Zeiss and Leitz after WWII

    [Moderator's note: The initial posts in this thread were split from another discussion where they were off topic.]

    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    A lot of countries from the WWll "wining" ally got their hands onto Zeiss, Leitz and lots of other top brands data and tools around the war time, so thats how You have canons, nikons and other new comers that initially copied Zeiss and Leitz.
    Nope. If you look at a little history, you will see that Japan was not a "winning ally" from WW II.
    Last edited by David A. Goldfarb; 08-14-2011 at 11:17 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    697
    Images
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Monito View Post
    Nope. If you look at a little history, you will see that Japan was not a "winning ally" from WW II.
    After the war, Japan was placed under international control of the American-led Allied powers in the Asia-Pacific region through General Douglas MacArthur as Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers.
    Indeed, the info gets to the Japs with the help by US, latter on the Japs outsource some to China, so yeah..
    The americans failed to copy most of the Zeiss, Leica, Rodenstock, Schneider-Kreznach.. and many others, so they were open to handle the task to some of their new friends..

  3. #3
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    İstanbul - Türkiye
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    3,886
    Images
    108
    US : I want to kill remaining of you with A Bomb
    Japan : Kill me but I love you

    Do you watch spanish soap opera Georg You cant find this love even at Shakespear.

  4. #4
    benjiboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    U.K.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,913
    [QUOTE=georg16nik;1222924]After the war, Japan was placed under international control of the American-led Allied powers in the Asia-Pacific region through General Douglas MacArthur as Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers.
    Indeed, the info gets to the Japs with the help by US, latter on the Japs outsource some to China, so yeah..
    The americans failed to copy most of the Zeiss, Leica, Rodenstock, Schneider-Kreznach.. and many others, so they were open to handle the task to some of their new friends..[/QUOTE

    The Japanese ( who were our allies in WW1) got their optical expertise from cooperation with there allies the Germans between the wars, the Russians took the plant and machinery and most of the workforce from the Zeiss plant at Jena to Russia after WW11, but they didn't take the stocks of glass, the Americans took some of the workers in trucks to Oberkochen in West Germany and started Zeiss AG there was subsequently litigation in international courts for many years to decide which company was the real Zeiss

    P.S. WW11 has been over for sixty five years, this is an international forum and we have several Japanese members who may object to be referred to as "Japs".
    Last edited by benjiboy; 08-14-2011 at 04:29 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Ben

  5. #5
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    İstanbul - Türkiye
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    3,886
    Images
    108
    In 15 years , Russia sent first satellite , first man and woman to space and built the hydrogen bomb and A Bomb. They did not disassamble the rockets from Zeiss factory , did they ? I think Russian friends may object this.

  6. #6
    benjiboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    U.K.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    In 15 years , Russia sent first satellite , first man and woman to space and built the hydrogen bomb and A Bomb. They did not disassamble the rockets from Zeiss factory , did they ? I think Russian friends may object this.
    The Russians put the first man and woman in space first and developed nuclear bombs because the the German Scientists and engineers they captured after WW11 were better than the ones the Americans captured.
    Many of the optical and electronic devices used in the Soviet space programme were devised and manufactured at the Zeiss Jena Plant in East Germany, indeed the western powers banned the export of electronic components to communist countrys who had to start from scratch and do the the research and development work to produce the necessary electronics that were freely available in any corner electronics store the West were manufactured at Zeiss Jena.
    Last edited by benjiboy; 08-14-2011 at 06:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Ben

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    697
    Images
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    US : I want to kill remaining of you with A Bomb
    Japan : Kill me but I love you

    Do you watch spanish soap opera Georg You cant find this love even at Shakespear.
    Umut, no, but I trust You are right
    The love and hate relationships of the few infamous interceptor nations is a total romance

    Ben, lots of *international* friends are perfectly ok with shorthands like Japs, Brits, Yankees.

    So, we were talking about the Jupiter 3, that is pre-war Zeiss Sonnar.
    In 35mm focal, the Jupiter 12 might be the closest in character to J 3 - both are pre-war designs with a very good performance.
    There is a pre-war Fed 28mm.. made for the NKVD bodies but it costs more than Leitz 35mm from the same vintage and it have to be adjusted to 28.8..
    The asian alternatives in the 35mm focal might not worth the extra bucks and I don't mean only Konica hexanon 35mm f/2
    Last edited by georg16nik; 08-14-2011 at 08:10 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada. Ex-California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    After the war, Japan was placed under international control of the American-led Allied powers in the Asia-Pacific region through General Douglas MacArthur as Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers.
    Indeed, the info gets to the Japs with the help by US, latter on the Japs outsource some to China, so yeah..
    The americans failed to copy most of the Zeiss, Leica, Rodenstock, Schneider-Kreznach.. and many others, so they were open to handle the task to some of their new friends..
    The patents were public knowledge. Nikon and then Canon were using them as the basis for lens designs in the late 1930s before WW II.

    After the war, Japanese manufacturers came out with new fast designs and photographers like David Douglas Duncan took them up and used them for the Korean War and other photojournalism. Those lenses had better contrast and were more useful to them. It wasn't until about 1961 that Leica caught up.

    The racist term "Jap" (not your intention) still has potency echoing from WW II and the abhorrent internment of American citizens of Japanese descent. Probably best to avoid it. If typing is difficult, you can type Jpn for Japan and Jpns for Japanese.
    Last edited by Monito; 08-14-2011 at 09:22 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #9
    benjiboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    U.K.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,913
    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    Umut, no, but I trust You are right
    The love and hate relationships of the few infamous interceptor nations is a total romance

    Ben, lots of *international* friends are perfectly ok with shorthands like Japs, Brits, Yankees.

    So, we were talking about the Jupiter 3, that is pre-war Zeiss Sonnar.
    In 35mm focal, the Jupiter 12 might be the closest in character to J 3 - both are pre-war designs with a very good performance.
    There is a pre-war Fed 28mm.. made for the NKVD bodies but it costs more than Leitz 35mm from the same vintage and it have to be adjusted to 28.8


    The asian alternatives in the 35mm focal might not worth the extra bucks and I don't mean only Konica hexanon 35mm f/2
    some of these terms are more offensive than others I doubt if any Japanese people likes being being referred to as "japs", any more than Germans like the term Krauts, all of which are demeaning and reinforce racial stereotypes .
    Last edited by benjiboy; 08-14-2011 at 09:38 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Ben

  10. #10

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada. Ex-California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    Ben, lots of *international* friends are perfectly ok with shorthands like Japs, Brits, Yankees.
    Just because you have a few friends who are "ok" with it doesn't erase the racist echoes that many people are reminded of everytime they read it. By avoiding it, the writer won't be confused with people who are ignorant of the awful history behind it.

Page 1 of 10 1234567 ... LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin