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Welcome to the Subminiature Group.

  1. ishutteratthethought
    Hello Folks,
    I really think subminiature photography is a great way to attain a unique looking image or print. When you expose an image on such a small piece of negative, enlarge and print it, you can achieve an appearance unlike any other due to distortion issues caused by such a small negative.
    I have tried various speed films but prefer the faster grainier films so when enlarged, you get a vey high grain look. Others try to go for the “as clean as possible” look which is attainable with the slower speed films & higher end Minox and Yashica systems.

    I will post some images produced from my first submini camera, the Minox IIIs made in approximately 1951.
    I have since acquired a Minox B as well as a Yashica Atoron.
    Hope to see others examples soon and please feel free to chime in. Also, any photos of your cameras would be great to see.

    There are obviously a host of other submini sites on the web which I participate in frequently but I thought it would be cool to see what other APUG’rs were up to in the submini world.

    Steve Zimmerman
  2. Removed Account2
    Hi there chiming in from Norway. Have had a Minolta 16-II since the early 1970's though it has seen very little use of late..... Have had others over the years and when I found E-bay a small collection of sub-mins quickly gathered here....

    I used to buy Minolta film for my 16-II but lucked upon some 16mm US Air Force gun camera casettes, which was opened in darkroom and film for the casesttes cut and wound, somne 54 cm if I'm not wrong. Used that for years and enjoyed the grain!

    Used a 16P on the river going up to Saigon in 1973, documenting patrol boats and stuff, I guess I was lucky to escape *interest* from gun-toting locals!

    This could be a fun group.....
  3. ishutteratthethought
    Wow, very cool Erik, being in Vietnam in 1973 must have been intense to say the least.
    Thanks for chiming in! I am interested to hear other stories pertaining to the submini world & I agree, this should be a fun group!
  4. Ralph Javins
    Ralph Javins
    Good morning, Steve, Erik, John, et al;

    I have had a Minolta 16 II of one sample or another since 1962. Right now there are about 5 of them here, plus some 16P, 16Ps, and I think there is a 16 QT. Nothing particularly exotic, but fun to play with and always handy. Mine usually rested on top of my wallet in my right front pocket. I always had a camera with me. The 16 II is my preferred model with its full range of aperture and shutter speed adjustments; f/2.8 to 16 and 1/30 to 1/500 second. The only real criticism I have ever had of the 16 II is the horrible "CLANK!" that it emits when you let the shutter loose.

    The main problem I face with them now is getting the Minolta 16mm film casettes to reload. I am looking for a source for them, either new or used. At this time, I have only one left. If I can get some that were made for the Kiev 303, I will try them.

    Nice to see a forum for this always-at-hand form of a camera. No, it may not be a Minox, but it certainly does work, and the film image is a little bit larger.

    Ralph, Latte Land, Washington
  5. ishutteratthethought
    Welcome to the group Ralph, you may want to try Goathill for your film. They will accommodate I am sure. http://www.subclub.org/sponsors/goathil2.htm
    The Minolta 16 II was and is a wonderful machine. Known for it's excellent lenses just like their other formats.
    As far as it not being a Minox, no worries, I love to see what other folks are using in the submini world.
    It's great to see the submini users come out, keep 'em coming!

  6. Removed Account2
    Hi there Ralph, I've had several of the Minoltas over the years, and recently picked up collecting them again. I was lucky to strike upon an early, pre-Minolta model, a little different, but still a Minolta!

    I can try out one of my Kiev 30 casettes if you worry if they fit, as I said I have some of the russian copies, they seem to come booxed with *all* you need!

    I think some of the russian or ukranian E-bay sellers can get you Kiev 30 casettes, several of them has E-bay stores and will actively seek out whatever you need.


    PS living over here in Norway, in the outbacks, far from big cities and facilities made it neigh on impossible to find interesting thing in the days before E-bay!
  7. Ralph Javins
    Ralph Javins
    Good morning, Steve and Erik;

    Thank you for the welcome and the comments.

    Erik, thanks for the suggestion about the Ukraine sellers. Having also a Kiev 88C, I am surprised that I did not think of that possible resource. Perhaps I concentrated too much on just 6 by 6.

    And, Steve, I will try sending a message to Joe at SubClub.org/Goathil2 again. The last time I tried the message "bounced."

    And, yes, I know the Minolta 16 II is not a Minox. It is almost like my comparing my Minolta Hi-Matic 9 with a Leica M2 or M3. But in actual use with the prints produced, it is not always possible to tell that a photograph has been made with one camera or another.

    The chief virtue of the Minolta 16 II for me was the ability to always have a camera in my pocket. There were several opportunities to at least get a photograph, when otherwise I would have been wishing that I had brought the 35mm camera bag with me. The 110 Cartridge pocket cameras are very similar in this respect, but the 16 II is still smaller when closed.

    One of my many projects (I have been told that there are too many projects) is to make up or adapt one of the negative carriers for the Durst 6cm by 6cm enlargers to work with 16mm film. Somewhere here there is a 25mm lens that would work well with an adapter in an IXOTUB recessed lens board for 16mm.

    Erik, I agree that e-Bay has been a boon to collectors everywhere. It was my main source up until 2008 October 16 when they went to their PayPal Only payment system. That almost completely eliminated my participation in e-Bay activities, and it actually did for a year. I have learned that there are some ways around their "Preferred Payment Plan," but it is a little bit convoluted and requires the co-operation of the seller in making the arrangement for other payment forms. There are a couple of sellers who specialize in things for Minolta AF cameras, but they also do PayPal only, so I am not able to take advantage of their offerings for the Minolta Maxxum 9.

    Thank you, gentlemen, and enjoy;

    Ralph, Latte Land, Washington
  8. Removed Account2
    Steve, did I mention I have a 16mm carrier for a Meopta Axomat enlarger here somewhere? Don't need it, so make it worthwhile for me shipping it to somebody!
    :-)) Think I have the Minolta daylight developing tank also, technically I don't need that either, siince I have an old Johnson developing tank that will easily let medevelop two 16mm's at the same time.... Did anyone mention 6x6? <evil grin>

    I never had any trouble using Paypal, I think the hype about Paypal is mostly hype, to me it has been a relief, since transferring monye via banks, even to neighbor Sweden is a major pain in the butt. I usually pay the same night, sit back and relax and a while later the postman brings Christmas!

    Erik, Norway
  9. ishutteratthethought
    Eric, thanks for the offer however I am good to go in that department.
    I use a modified carrier as well as a Yashica Enla http://www.subclub.org/darkroom/enlas.htm

    The Enla works great however I use my modified unit mostly because I really like to print the border on my images.
  10. Ade-oh
    Hi All,

    I've been dipping my toes into sub-mini for a couple of years, with a Minox C and a Minox LX I bought off Ebay. It's a lot of fun and I'm keen to 'extend my range'; I recently acquired a 28mm enlarging lens so that I can print from my negs having, hitherto, simply scanned them.

    Anyway, good to have this group in APUG!

  11. Removed Account2
    What scanner Adrian, and have you any pictures to show us what can be achieved?

    PS I have a Kiev 30 and a Kiev 303 spare, in case the extending of the range is happeniung now.... :-P
  12. Iantoz
    Hi, I am new to this group and would like to acknowledge Murray as my reason for joining.
    I have two 110 cameras a Minolta 460T and a Canon 110ED, neither of which I have used in anger as yet.
    I am in the process of purchasing a few Fujicolor Superia 110 film cassttets which I plan to load with B&W film and then develop these myself and scan them into my PC, much as I do now with 35mm.
    Finding cassettes has taken me over a year and I now need to find or adapt a developing tank for 16mm and then find a holder to feed into my Plustek scanner.
    Fortunately I am in no hurry, retirement brings with it some rewards.
    Murray has been a help to me and if I can offer the same assistance to this group I will be very happy yo do so.

    Regard David.
  13. ishutteratthethought
    Welcome to the submini group David!
    I see Goathill no longer sells the 110 cassettes but they can slit and reload a variety of films for you.

    Some stock 110 film here: http://www.frugalphotographer.com/cat110.htm
  14. blockend
    Hi, I've been lurking a while as the idea of sub-min is appealing but I have a question to ask and hope it doesn't come across as a troll. Given the size of full-frame 35mm cameras like the Rollei and Olympus compacts, would the same aesthetic and convenience goal not be achieved by printing a small section of a conventional negative? I understand the technical challenge of making a great print from such a tiny neg but most of the battle is surely against dust, hairs and drying marks? I'm thinking 'sub miniature' panoramics from a conventional neg.
  15. Murray Kelly
    Murray Kelly
    Greetings blockend, welcome aboard. Your first sentence says it all for the most of us. Sub-min is of itself, appealing. We all own and use 35mm , MF and some larger too, I'll bet. This household has several high end digitals too, and they satisfy some of your questions.
    I think, personally, it's the challenge.
    After all, one can take the corner of a 24x36mm frame and enlarge it, but the perspective would be like a tele lens, just for starters. Then the lenses of bigger cameras don't have the precision - as well shown on a thread over on Submini-L by Joe McLoin. He took a Minox thru 16mm and on up to 4x5" and arranged the shooting distance so that the subject of interest (his garden shed) was the same area on all the negatives from smallest to largest. All on the same fine grain film and all with the same developer. The Minox and the Minolta won hands down for detail and acutance. He did it just for the 'denyers' that is those who, like yourself I suspect, can't quite see the point of the struggle (and it is, often) to work with the equipment. It can be so easy to go 35mm and bigger at the same or even less cost. That leaves you with one factor to forget and concentrate on the image.
    But if you go around the net or cruise Flickr and sample what is done with the like of the cameras here you will be sorely tempted, I think, to try your hand.
    Panoramas from a conventional film size are an extension , in a way, of subminiature. Have a Nikon that switches as you will from normal to pano but getting the darn things printed correctly has been my biggest problem. They are all in colour and I usually shoot B&W for sub-min so's I can load and develop myself. Colour I leave to the lab.
    Hope this answers some of your good points raised. We all ask ourselves the same questions I'll bet when things don't go quite according to plan!

  16. blockend
    Thanks for the welcome Murray, plenty to think about. Hope to try a sub-min soon.

  17. Jayd
    Hello all
    Liking small quality things and film photography ( back when I started there was no digital) it was natural that I would come to the subs.
    I don't have any Minox or Rollie but I do have Minolta and Pentax 110. I' have done a good bit of research and have some experience so maybe i can be of some help as well as learn a bit.

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