- Joachim -
Yes - I am fully aware of the Pentax 67, but I am also aware of the fact that this camera is for most cases a tripod camera. And one of my concerns is to get camera that is capable of decent hand-hold-ability (sure, nothing beats MF rangefinders for that) so In General I try hard to keep my self from 6x6 and 6x7 SLRs, even though there is often only rather small difference in weight (for example ETRSi versus SQA-i) Best wishes from cold rainy Muenster :)
- lxdude -
Indeed - I have somehow omitted the Bronica. In comparison to others I do not really see that the lenses would be considerably heavier than from others. What is your impression of the camera - how is the hand-holdability? What is your main use of the camera?
- razians -
thanks for your overview. H1 and H2 look cool, but out of the price range - especially the lenses. You say that you are looking for Mamiya (ETRSi I guess), 645NII or older Mamiya - what is steering your decision this way?
- suzyj -
You are indeed not the first that tends to prefer older Mamiyas to Later Pro or Pro TL models. Is it just the finis of the body or is there more to the difference? How do the newer and older Mamiyas compare? What is your main usage of the Mamiya M645 (weddings ..?)
Mamiya In general - I would love to hear more comments on differences between Older "metal" Mamiyas , Pro/Pro TL and AFD models. It is quite confusing (apart from the AF and backs)
On the Pentax - I found on several places that thanks to rather small and well damped mirror the Pentax 645NII actually does not really need the MLU unless one uses very long lenses (like 400mm or longer). Do the previous generations (645 & 645N) share the same well damped mirror?
Pentax & Mamiya - I am looking for a reliable source of the weights of the lenses
I have several of the Mamiya 645 lenses, and could weigh them. Which ones do you need weights for?
My Mamiya 645 Pro TL with back and AE prism weighs 1.4kg.
Add 500g for WG401 power grip with batteries - I don't use it often.
Add another 500g for 80mm F1.9 or 200g for 55mm F2.8.
In comparison, my EOS 3 with power grip weighs 1.5kg. And my EF lenses weigh more than Mamiya Sekors.
- MattKing -
OK, before I went ahead and bothered you I went I again to butkus.org and this time managed to find the lens specifications for bot MF and AF lenses. Thank you for your offer. Still - one more general question - How do you find using the M645 hand hold? I mean like BIG 35mm SLR with pentaprism and winder.
Thank you. But that sounds like about 2.4 kg ready to shoot a'la 35mm SLR .. :(
.. Would the Mamiya AFD be any lighter?
.. what about the Pentax 645 / 645N / 645NII or Contax 645?
none of them really grabbed me, that's all. i have a good feeling about the pentax 645n/ii, though. the bronicas and mamiyas seem a bit unwieldy with a prism and grip attached, but i don't want to count them out.
Originally Posted by slnce-z-gsi
OMG, the Bronica with speed grip and prism viewfinder are much like using 35mm SLRs (merely a bit bigger and heavier).
Originally Posted by raizans
Body + AEIII prism + 120 back (no film) + Speed Grip = 3 lb 3 oz.
40mm lens = 1 lb 2 0z.
i won't consider weight a real problem in this scenario, any of those systems should be more or less the same weight, what i think it really matters is ergonomics. The deal is to find a good balance between what is a must to you (prism? motordrive?) and the weight you would carry, i can tell you for sure that a camera without prism and motordrive its gonna a be lighter! dont focus your attention to just weight, any of those cameras were not made to be extra light, and 300-500gr more or less is at least for me irrelevant.
I was in the same position as you a month ago and i can tell you that you can spend days searching for the perfect system or listening opinions.
Do a favor yourself, go to a shop, hold and play the systems of your choice, even ask them to rent or at least shoot a roll inside the shop to try features.
After trying them you should have a nice idea if that or this camera works for you, then you can buy it anywhere cheaper. And i can tell you that i needed 2 minutes to choose one between mamiya, pentax and contax.
- peri24 -
you are indeed right - trying the cameras out is the best way, however I live in a medium sized city and the amount of used MF gear even in the biggest shop is rather limited. Even in bigger cities it would be hard to find 3 or 4 645 SLRs in the same shop. So I am just doing my homework on internet ...
.. BTW - what did you choose at the end and why?
Answering your second question first...
Originally Posted by slnce-z-gsi
Based on the manuals you can download from the Mamiya site, it looks like a fully equipped Pro Tl (back, pentaprism, 80mm f/2.8 lens and winder) at about 4 pounds weighs about 75g more than an AFDII without lens.
As to your 1st question...
It might help to have some context - my 35mm stuff is small (Olympus OM, without winder, and prime lenses only, mainly). Despite that, I have no problem with a Mamiya 645 Pro. I don't often use a power winder, but I do use a left-hand grip and a focus assist lever.
Some further context might also help. For decades I've used Mamiya TLRs handheld, including doing wedding work. In recent times, I've been experimenting handheld work with even bigger cameras - a Mamiya RB67 and a Koni-Omega rangefinder.
And finally, more context still. Essentially I use my cameras with 1 1/2 hands, as I have limited strength and dexterity in my right hand.
IMHO, the weight of these cameras is far less important than their ergonomics.
Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to ask further questions.
what a shame, secondhand cameras in barcelona are pretty expensive but at least we have them in the shops, and when i'm saying expensive i'm meaning 1300€ for a mamiya afd kit or 2000€ for contax kit...
Originally Posted by slnce-z-gsi
Cameras to me are similar to guitars you have to try before buying, and with instruments is even worse because 2 guitars of the same model can be night and day at least with cameras you have not to deal with that , 8 years ago i did 18 hours by bus just to try a guitar that i saw on a classified ad.
As i said before i chose contax 645.
After reading reviews on internet and listening opinions everywhere i had a clear image of what were offering to me each system, but one thing didn't stop popping out, zeiss glass of contax, people swear about 120mm makro sharpness and 80mm bokeh.
When i was looking for a camera i was sure that i wanted some fast glass, faster than 2,8 if possible, that narrowed my options, contax 80mm f2 or manual mamiya 80mm f1.9 (manual lenses doesnt work in afd bodies).
That was my main reason to go with contax before holding any camera, i didnt care about other things because i have more systems for others tasks at home, so i just needed: fast lenses + fast 120 film camera.
With that in mind i went to a local shop and played with other options that i had in mind: pentax af, mamiya af, if any of them had been more ergonomic, nicer or sturdier looking than contax i would chose any of them over contax (mamiya afd was my second option) but contax apart to have a faster lens was the nicest of those three.
Then the day after i saw an ad here in apug and a two weeks later i had my contax at home. (thanks MikeSeb!!)