i realized early on into this thread that i was saying "ortho" when i meant something different ..
i meant blue sensitive ( only!) orthochromatic ( not sensitized with dye ) film, like pre-1870s plates ... the baseline .
at present i am shooting paper negatives, a lot of them, and i was wondering if there was a
film equivalent to my paper negatives ... some of the papers i shoot are vc, and some are graded..
i also do some UV exposures, ... so in the end maybe just a bluish ( i will have to experiment, dark , light, greenish/cyanish )
and filter might works best.

as chemical photography marches forward, it seems that we are going backwards at the same time ..
i kind of hope that down the road there is a manufacturer of just plain old blue sensitive ortho film / plates
instead of pan film. i know it is inferior, and difficult to harness the contrast, and "deal with" because
of its slowness ( dyes increase the speed ) but it would be kind of nice to see a drastic change.
instead of chemical photography trying to keep up all the BS that the digi folks want us to worry about,
( we've already lost color image making to the computer ) i'd like to hunker down
and get back to the roots of photography. i know i am probably a minority,
but images from that early time period seem to be much more interesting than
things made in the last 100 years ...

thanks again for all your help, suggestions and information / education ..
john