The reason I normally reference the print is because the negative is just an intermediate media. I don't hang my negs on the wall.

I only care about what the negative produces.

Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
The best saturation/contrast is around mid tones. If it was such a straight line, you wouldn't need to raise exposure for things below mid tones. And I wouldnt see reduced contrast and saturation above mid tones. There is not much saturation in white to lose.
I am not saying there are no limits, but the toe is the close limit, a bit extra exposure to move subjects up off the toe can improve; our ability color balance a print, the separation of tones in the shadows as well as reduce grain and improve detail because we don't have to print from the toe.

I think I see where we are not talking the same language.

Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
Blue dresses are a more pure (saturated) colour than a chocolate Lab to begin with, and such light dresses would be around or just above mid tones, and a chocolate Lab below it by the sounds. There is no saturation in white to lose, contrast isn't detail, you can have more detail in low contrast object then you can in high contrast, and also vice versa.
I don't see saturation as getting close to a pure primary mid-tone color like red, green, or blue.

Chocolate lab brown and robins egg blue can both be fully saturated colors.

Saturation for me is simply a measure of how close to "normal" or "expected" the color gets.

Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
"Yes this can be done like the zone system or a push."
You mean a pull.
Actually either.