Steve, I think we'll likely just do an MN fall apug trip to the north shore this year.... I know we were thinking about going to the Badlands/Black Hills this fall, but it's a hell of a hike and it's about a 7 or 8 hour drive to there from the Twin Cities. If Gim, and Daniel were coming, they'd lose a day and a half each way at least.... So we'd need to plan for a week long trip.