My J-8 is a fairly new one '61 the older J-3 was made in '59. My J-9 is also a '59. The ones I see listed for sale on the sale sites must all be the newer ones as they mostly seem to hide the serial numbers. Don't see many "old" ones coming out of the former Soviet Union at the bargain prices of even a few years ago. I use mime as is as I can't afford to have them "Brianized"and I'm afraid of making them worse right now. All in all they're good lenses I just don't know if any could be better.