hmm, this seller on the large format forum assured me this one would work for what I need. I had planned to buy a 12" but then this was suggested - I guess I'll see what I can do with it as I can't afford another lens already. I have a 480 for it but it's too long for my bellows length. It was one I had purchased quite a while back cheap. So...I've got to work with what I have for now. I do have 8x10 holders now thanks to a fellow apug member here who has sent me some for a good price.