I hope I didn't throw in a bone of contention into the discussion - I tend to question any opinions that start with " camera x is complete junk" or "if you want to take pictures, don't get camera x"... And I wouldn't want anyone to think that I am of that opinion of the Kiev products - I merely found through my research, that more "sure - fire" options, if you will, are available. And now that the price is no longer as clear-cut an adventage as it was - especially for someone like myself, it may be wiser to look to an option with fewer question marks. I have no doubt (actually, I have seen many examples first hand) of images produced with Kiev 88's that are far beyond anything I can hope to produce given any camera - and in their own right, world class across the board. And I may be tempted to still consider one, if it came from a reliable source - in all honesty, I have heard just as much or more to the detriment of Bronica gear (as far as relibility and quality conistance is concerned) - and yet I know that hobbyist and professional alike, many swear by them. For many people, like myself, purchase of even a used MF rig is a large outlay of cash in comparison to our "disposible income", and I can certainly sympathise with anyone who wants to get as much for his/her dollar as possible, and perhaps more importantly - as much trouble free use down the road, as possible... I guess what I am trying to say is that a "peeing contest" between proponents of various brands is not really very helpful, is it?